TIME'S UP x SISTA BRUNCH Limited series - Monifa Bandele: Changing the Conversation
Episode Description:
Sista Brunch has partnered up with the TIME’S UP Foundation for a special, 5-part series focusing on safety, equity, and power in Hollywood. We'll talk to Black women+ in the industry about the impact of these imbalances and what's being done to address them.
In part 1 of the series, we speak to TIME'S UP Foundation COO Monifa Bandele about the worldwide impact of Black women's art, our voices, and holding Hollywood powerbrokers accountable for change. She also tells hosts Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams about the importance of disrupting unequal power systems to create "a new normal."
Learn more about TIME’S UP Foundation below:
To stay updated on all things TIME’S UP, text NOW to 306-44.
Transcript:
Anya Adams (00:12):
Welcome back to Sista Brunch with me, Anya Adams.
Fanshen Cox (00:15):
And me, Fanshen Cox. We are so, so, so glad to be back and talking to you about Black women plus working in the media, entertainment and the arts. So I can't wait to do this. Anya can't wait to do this. Chris and Britney can't wait to do this because we've been planning this for a while, but before we jump in, we're going to actually tell you what's going on, which is we have this amazing announcement. We are very proudly partnering with TIME'S UP Foundation to bring you a special monthly five part series focusing on safety, equity and power in Hollywood, and the impact of these imbalances. The work being done to address them and celebrating the Black women plus who are leading the charge and shifting the industry's culture and practices.
Anya Adams (01:05):
We're kicking off our series on this show with a conversation with TIME'S UP chief operating officer, Monifa Bandele about changing the conversation around safety, equity and power. We want to take a look at what it takes to empower women plus of all backgrounds to fight against toxic work place abuse. Monifa is a long time advocate for gender, economic and racial justice. She's worked with organizations like MomsRising, which aims to get economic security for women and families in the United States. She's also a part of the leadership team for the movement for Black lives. This is really going to be an amazing show guys.
Fanshen Cox (01:40):
It really is. Okay. Monifa welcome, we are so glad to have you on Sista Brunch. We're proud that you are our first guest for this series with TIME'S UP and so, we wanted to start by just making sure that all of our listeners actually know what TIME'S UP is. What's kind of the birth of it and the trajectory of it and how you got here today.
Monifa Bandele (02:02):
Oh, thank you so much.
Anya Adams (02:05):
You're welcome.
Monifa Bandele (02:05):
Thank you, thank you. I feel welcomed and this is such a wonderful thing to be doing.
Anya Adams (02:10):
Yes.
Monifa Bandele (02:10):
We are really staring at the beginnings of a new era, so I'm very excited. And so happy to talk to you guys today. TIME'S UP Foundation and TIME'S UP Now are a new organization. We launched three years ago when everyone watched Oprah Winfrey standing on the stage of the Golden Globes and she gave her speech saying that time's up. Time is up on unsafe, undignified-
Anya Adams (02:36):
Yes.
Monifa Bandele (02:36):
Unfair workplaces for women. And at that time, it was centered and focused on entertainment and Hollywood, but that has ramifications on all of the workplaces that we're in, and all of the places where Black women find work formally and informally. One of the things that that moment did for me is it made me think about how this is really a generations old call to action, right? Because as Black women, our workplaces were never safe, were never dignified, were never fair. So our great-great grandmothers had always envisioned this day. So that call to action just really hit me in my spirit that we saw Oprah, but we just saw generations of our foremothers also calling us to action.
Anya Adams (03:24):
Monifa, did you have a moment when you saw Oprah say that where you were like, "I'm going to work for that organization?"
Monifa Bandele (03:31):
Absolutely.
Anya Adams (03:32):
Because you were already doing such great important work. So yeah.
Monifa Bandele (03:36):
Yes, because all of the women who were apart of that founding, there was that moment on the red carpet where you had entertainment women who were prominent standing alongside many of my comrades. A lot of activists and organizers and people like Tarana Burke and people like Rosa Clemente, all of these amazing women who we've been working in this intersectional movement for the past decade. So yeah, I was just like, "Oh, we're already in fourth gear? We're going into fifth gear. Good Oprah, yes."
Anya Adams (04:09):
Yes.
Monifa Bandele (04:09):
Because this workplace piece is really key. So with the founding of the organization through our work, we're really leading the space to advocate for women across industries to have safety and equity in their work. So that means creating safe work places, making sure that women have places to go, to talk about everything from physical, emotional or sexual abuse to discrimination, disrupting the power, because we know we can put all the policy we want in place but if we remain outside of the seat of power, we can't even hold people accountable to new laws that we put in place. Really changing and disrupting the pathways to leadership and then connecting the entertainment industry to the global agenda.
Monifa Bandele (04:54):
What we put out as art as women, especially as Black women, it impacts across the world. I don't know how many times I've travel and people are changed their culture, the education, the understanding of so many issues are grounded in the creative works of our folks here in the United States. So not only is it a great privilege, it's a great responsibility to set a new model for safety at work.
Anya Adams (05:21):
I think it's so important that they understood that even though it started in the entertainment industry, and that is a big part of it, it tends to be very exclusive, right? I mean, even hearing you use the word disrupt, I'm like "Oh good. Next time I'm in a development meeting, I'm going to use the word disrupt." Because you're starting to hear that from leadership and words that they have never really connected with or understood. It's nice to know that we can use those concepts in our own meetings to get stuff done.
Monifa Bandele (05:50):
Yeah, we've got to call it what it is. We're not keeping... even with this COVID, this is "Oh, we got to go back to normal." We said, "Oh no, we're not going back to that normal." Right?
Fanshen Cox (05:59):
Right.
Monifa Bandele (05:59):
We're disrupting that to create a new normal.
Fanshen Cox (06:05):
Do you want to talk a little bit more about that? Just the COVID impact of it all and the work you're doing [crosstalk 00:06:08]
Monifa Bandele (06:07):
Yes, yes, yes. I mean, this conversation couldn't be more timely. I don't know if you all have seen, but the last two jobs reports coming out of the United States show that not only have two million women fallen out of the workforce, I mean unprecedented. In the last two months, those numbers were almost exclusively Black women and women of color.
Anya Adams (06:29):
What?
Monifa Bandele (06:30):
Oh yes. The games that have been made to make sure that there's equity in the workplace, all of the amazing DEI experts out there listening to the podcast. You've been going into these companies making sure that their workplaces work for women, that include Black people and people of color, that is being hit hard by COVID. So as we go into talking about stimulus, as we talk about what kind of work place policies that we want to have put in place like paid sick days, paid family leave, making sure people get vaccines, all that. We have to have a racial equity lens, right? But remember five years ago, no one wanted to talk about race. Everything you did had to be race blind, race neutral, right? For us, coming out of Ferguson and Movement for Black Lives, we're like, "No, you can't fix something that you can't talk about."
Anya Adams (07:22):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (07:23):
Right, right.
Monifa Bandele (07:23):
You have to name it.
Anya Adams (07:25):
Say it, yes.
Monifa Bandele (07:25):
So now with COVID, we see the stats in whose getting sick. We see the stats in whose dying. Now we also see the stats in whose losing employment, desperate rates and so whatever we fix has to name that. It has to say, "How are we going to address the racial inequities in how we administer the vaccine? How are we going to address the racial inequities when we bring the jobs back?" Right?
Fanshen Cox (07:51):
Right.
Monifa Bandele (07:51):
And we have to talk from this framework. You know ladies, as Black women, we're pushing those conversations.
Anya Adams (07:58):
Right, right, yes.
Monifa Bandele (07:59):
You know, it may be a little uncomfortable but that's what we do.
Anya Adams (08:02):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. Stay tuned for more of our conversation with TIME'S UP COO Monifa Bandele.
Anya Adams (08:10):
(Music)
Fanshen Cox (08:28):
Hey we're back. Here's more of our conversation with Monifa Bandele from TIME'S UP. What things have come out of the COVID culture that are things you think we want to keep or build upon? Is there anything there? Or is it just kind of been a destruction of the traditional ecosystem that was there and we need to build it back up?
Monifa Bandele (08:51):
Yeah, it's a complete disruption, you know? I think... and you all probably experienced this prior to COVID, I remember all those meetings where I was like, "This could have been an email." You know?
Fanshen Cox (09:01):
Right, right.
Monifa Bandele (09:02):
This could have been done virtually. This could have been a call. I think that's going to continue. That we're going to see that we don't have to necessarily be out of our homes as much as we really had to be. I'm speaking especially for working moms, you know? My previous job at MomsRising, mothers were in this [inaudible 00:09:22] I want to show up and be the best at my work. I want to show up and be the best at home. I want to work on this production company, but they keep going until 9:00, 10:00 at night and guess what? My kids are home, they want to eat, they want to talk to me, you know? So I think what the virtual work environment has showed us that we can now accommodate people contributing from home. So that we keep, but all of the things that still make it difficult for Black women and women in general to rise up the ranks of power, to be paid equitably.
Monifa Bandele (09:57):
I mean, there's still huge pay and wealth gaps. Also how our healthcare is being dealt with and distributed has to be changed. I have a lot of hope, you know? I'm looking at Kamala Harris. I'm looking at Kristen Clarke. I'm looking at Deb Haaland. I'm looking, I'm like "Okay. I see a real one. I see a real one. I see a real one." So we're going to have to flank them because they're going to be in those rooms. They're probably not going to say disrupt, I'm assuming.
Anya Adams (10:27):
But that's their job.
Monifa Bandele (10:29):
Let's work on this together. Yes, whatever they need to say.
Fanshen Cox (10:33):
So what are some specific measures that you're taking at TIME'S UP Foundation and TIME'S UP Now to address these disparities?
Monifa Bandele (10:40):
So one of the things we knew three years ago was that there was no place for women to go who were facing, not just what our creatives and amazing actors in Hollywood were experiencing, but also in the farms and in agriculture out in these fields. So one of the big things that we established was the TIME'S UP legal defense fund. The fund has helped with legal assistance providing support to thousands of women. I mean, it was like someone opened the flood gates. Now there's a place where you could pick up the phone, you could call and you could either say, "This happened to me and I know what it is, and I need help but I need to sue somebody, write something up." You can pick up the phone and said, "This is happening and I actually don't know what it is, but I'm uncomfortable. I have suspicions that I'm not being treated fairly. I don't know what other people make or someone is being inappropriate with me."
Monifa Bandele (11:33):
So there's this survivor justice and a survivor support network that builds out from having this legal defense. So that's a big lever of what TIME'S UP is doing and the other thing is that we're pushing employers to do better. So last year, we released a series of guides for working in entertainment, which were best practices for folks. Because just like with the Movement for Black Lives, big companies come out and they have Black Lives Matter on the screen. It's like, "So what does that mean?"
Fanshen Cox (12:04):
Right?
Monifa Bandele (12:04):
Right. They did the same thing with Me Too and TIME'S UP. Yeah, support TIME'S UP, we support Me Too. Here's a guide. You need to go through this. Is this happening? Is there writers when actresses are doing nudity scenes? How is talent recruitment done? Who's involved in that process? So we put together a comprehensive guide that not only can you yell TIME'S UP, yell I support Me Too, you actually have the information to make sure that your workplace is safe. So we're re-releasing those guides this year and we're challenging the industry. At the time when TIME'S UP was founded, only 4% of filmmakers were women. So were started the 4% challenge. We said, "You support TIME'S UP? Then you entertainment industry need to better." So we've been pushing and even just from 2007 to 2018 where it was 4%, it has grown over the last two years, but we're going to have to remeasure because of COVID production has really slow to stop, right?
Fanshen Cox (13:03):
They love using that excuse now and I'm like, "That doesn't change that you should be hiring us." Right? Y'all are still making productions.
Monifa Bandele (13:11):
I'm watching it. Somebody's making it.
Fanshen Cox (13:13):
Yeah, if you keep making it, exactly. You keep making it. This piece shouldn't change it, right? You should still be pushing to make sure you got women at all levels on your work.
Anya Adams (13:22):
One of the things that kind of interesting between Fanshen and I is Fanshen's a little bit more corporate, whereas I direct television. I just got off Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist. I'm going to another show. So I hear a lot about Fanshen can step into these rooms and talk about disruption and really push that way. How do you see those of us that are in the actual production mix incorporating what you guys are doing and pushing from where we are? I understand change happens from the top and it really filters down, but there's got to be those of us down here to receive too.
Monifa Bandele (13:53):
I don't think so. Not necessarily. I really see the creatives as being the tip of the spear.
Anya Adams (14:01):
Yeah.
Monifa Bandele (14:01):
Right? So what's happening in the strategy sessions is we are building out all the information, all the tools, but when it gets to the point when you need to shift the narrative, well then [crosstalk 00:14:11] culture change, it is your work Anya. It is the creatives who are in there who are saying, "This looks like we are creating a piece that is for the white gaze." This looks like something you're creating for the male gaze.
Anya Adams (14:23):
Yes.
Monifa Bandele (14:23):
I'm disrupting that every time I created through Anya's gaze.
Anya Adams (14:28):
Right, right.
Monifa Bandele (14:29):
And knowing all the information we have, knowing all the tools that we have. In my previous job, which I loved at MomsRising, we worked on the Black maternal health crisis, which nobody knew about. People had no idea that Black women in the United States were experience maternal deaths at third world nation rates, right? It was this thing. So every time we talked about it, it was like you have stats. But when the creatives came in, when Shonda Rhimes in a episode about maternal mortality, you know what I'm saying? And you have Serena doing a storytelling piece about her experience, it changed the game over night Anya. Over night having that narrative in those creative pieces, people all of a sudden now calling us saying, "Oh my god, what are we going to do about this Black maternal health crisis?" We're like, "We're glad you called back." You know? So to me, it's the tip of the spear, it really is. The narrative shifting is where it's going to happen.
Anya Adams (15:27):
Yeah I hear you, and I think also talking to those crew members that may not be the creative entity on set, speaking up I think is really important too. If you see something, say something. That's such a silly thing to say, but if you see if representation of something that your show is doing that is a misrepresentation, speaking up a lot of times shows are written from a White gaze in an effort to illuminate a Black issue and it's incorrect.
Fanshen Cox (15:58):
Right.
Monifa Bandele (15:59):
And we see it, the audience sees it. We know it.
Fanshen Cox (16:01):
Exactly.
Monifa Bandele (16:02):
[crosstalk 00:16:02]
Anya Adams (16:02):
What's coming? And those of us that are not in the rooms yet, in production at least, to just know that speaking our truth from wherever we are, PA, whatever. Find somebody where you can illuminate the situation a little bit. Hey it's Anya and you're listening to Sista Brunch, we'll be right back. And if you haven't already, follow us own Twitter @SistaBrunch.
Fanshen Cox (16:37):
Welcome back to Sista Brunch, I'm Fanshen and let's get back into this conversation with Monifa Bandele. I will say when we first heard about TIME'S UP publicly, it was kind of A list celebrity face, and that's what a lot of people weren't really sure it was for them, right? Which is why one of the reasons I think it was such an important decision for them to bring you on, because you are outside of the industry and because you have this grassroots activist background.
Monifa Bandele (17:09):
Yeah.
Fanshen Cox (17:10):
So I think what's great about having you on is letting our listeners know whatever position you have on set, whether you are a PA, whether you are development executive, all the way through all of those, you have a place to go that's very welcoming. Because I even, in my position was like, "Is it okay for me to reach out to TIME'S UP?" And then Michelle Jones put together a Black women TIME'S UP get together and folks were there of all different levels of job positions and I was like, "Do I belong?" And I was like, "Oh yes."
Monifa Bandele (17:46):
I'm glad you said that because we have a number ways folks that are listening can plug in. So there's the WOC events that you're talking about, right? That women of color gathering. It launched with this big convening, but now it happens every month. You can plug into the safety working group because we're always reviving and evolving the tools that we push out to employers and look, we're not just pushing out the tools, we want to name and shame places that don't utilize the tools that are now available to them.
Fanshen Cox (18:15):
[crosstalk 00:18:15] them. Yes.
Monifa Bandele (18:15):
Okay? And then people can also text TIME'S UP to 30644. So you can also start to get our text alerts and our emails and just really get involved in this movement. Bring your industry in, you know?
Fanshen Cox (18:29):
Yes.
Monifa Bandele (18:29):
Maybe you work in advertising and other industries where we're growing out and organizing women.
Anya Adams (18:34):
It's just so important for people to realize the holistic approach, it's the whole community.
Monifa Bandele (18:40):
I wanted to name something really quick that Anya talked about, about speaking out no matter what level that you are throughout your... whether it's your organization or a production. Keep with the theme about our lot in life, right? As women is that... Black women, we're typically the truth tellers and what we've noticed is that then gives all these other people permission to speak, right?
Anya Adams (19:02):
Yes.
Monifa Bandele (19:03):
You think you're going to be the only one to say, "I've been noticing this thing. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't smell right." You know what I'm saying? And then all of a sudden you're like, "I was like yeah." And someone who worked there five years goes, "Yeah." So people should feel the power in that that when you step forward, it isn't just shining truth on it, you're also giving so many people permission to speak.
Fanshen Cox (19:26):
Yes. I mean, another thing that I really appreciate about TIME'S UP is first of all, I love that you use the word dignified because that encompasses a lot of different ways that we're disrespected in our work. But also the safety piece because you might not feel safe, physically, spiritually and all those ways speaking up. So I think you having the legal option, even if it's somebody just coming in and understanding what their options are and they may not choose to use it, but that you have that defense fund there is another... such a good... exactly. [crosstalk 00:20:04] you don't have to be afraid because you've got that backup. Yeah, you got sisters right here that are like-
Anya Adams (20:09):
They got you.
Fanshen Cox (20:10):
We got you, yeah.
Monifa Bandele (20:11):
They got you and they can tell you what's the possibilities and what the limitations are. Because really actually the laws aren't that great, right?
Fanshen Cox (20:20):
Right, right.
Monifa Bandele (20:21):
So it's also comforting in knowing what my possible recourses are and also where there isn't a lot that can be done, and now we got to organize around that and do a movement to change it.
Anya Adams (20:33):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. Stay tuned for more of our conversation with TIME'S UP COO Monifa Bandele.
Anya Adams (20:38):
(Music.)
Fanshen Cox (20:55):
We're back, here's more of our conversation with Monifa Bandele from TIME'S UP. I'd love to know more about your background, because another thing that happens often with our guests and with our stories is very rarely did a Black woman start off even knowing that she could end up working in entertainment in some way, because again, we don't see ourselves, we're told we can't, all of that. So we love to look at also just background. So I know you talked about MomsRising and I'd love to hear more about that, and then also your work with Black Lives Matter.
Anya Adams (21:28):
Which was by the way, nominated for a Nobel Peace-
Fanshen Cox (21:31):
Nobel Peace Prize.
Anya Adams (21:34):
Which is insanely amazing.
Monifa Bandele (21:35):
I was thinking about that the other day. I just have to say the reason that it is sustaining because it was clear Black women that created it, you know what I'm saying? All these other things that happen and then you find out they're corrupt and I'm sorry, but it is so clear that that's why this is sustaining.
Fanshen Cox (21:55):
That's right.
Monifa Bandele (21:55):
And also the leadership model, you know? What I love about all of the many organizations that make up the movement, the Black Lives Matter global network that some of these state and individual chapters across the board, you see Black women centric, you see a Black queer feminist ideology being taught.
Fanshen Cox (22:13):
Yes, yes.
Monifa Bandele (22:13):
Right there on the ground and it's leader full. When you move away from these [crosstalk 00:22:20] organizational structures and people say, "Oh, there's no leadership. There's just all these different women." We're like, "No, it's actually leader full."
Anya Adams (22:27):
Leader full.
Monifa Bandele (22:27):
Right? And that's a term that Alicia Garza said one day when I was in the meeting. I'm like, "Yeah."
Fanshen Cox (22:33):
that's perfect.
Monifa Bandele (22:34):
Hell yeah. Right? We see leadership in a very different way. It's not this linear hierarchical structure, you know? It's like... this is how it showed up this summer. One of the most powerful moments when we were having uprisings on Juneteenth, you remember? It was all 50 states. There was a police response that was so disproportionate to what was happening with nothing like what we saw at the Capital, but that's another podcast. People were being arrested by the hundreds, by the thousands and the NTA workers were being called on to use buses and public transportation to transport people to jail.
Monifa Bandele (23:13):
So all of a sudden, we saw this statement tweeted out from the NTA workers that said, "We are bus drivers, we carry working New Yorkers and we are not the NYPD and we will not participating in limiting the civil rights of our fellow New Yorkers." This was not in coordination with the Movement for Black... there was not a conversation that had happened, but when you are leader full, people feel that they can step into their power and in their lane and do effective... you're not waiting for a directive from the one king master. You do this, you do this. So this Black queer feminist framework really allows for everyone to roll up their sleeves, get involved and that way, it's more powerful.
Fanshen Cox (23:59):
I love it.
Monifa Bandele (24:00):
So my history [inaudible 00:24:01] I've been doing work, especially around ending mass criminalization and mass incarceration actually for 20 years. I mean, one of my earliest campaigns was around fighting for justice for Amadou Diallo for this coalition called People's Justice 2000, remember that?
Fanshen Cox (24:17):
Yes.
Monifa Bandele (24:18):
He was a Black immigrant. He was shot 41 times in the Bronx when he was getting out his wallet to show police officers. So working with that mom, that family and fighting for all this little incremental reforms. Be like, "We want police to identify themselves or body cams." All these little things and what I've seen over the past two decades and all of my comrades is that that's not getting at safety. We need to completely transform what public safety is. We need to completely reimagine it. So when we were yelling defund the police and we're saying, "Move those dollars." Let's get mental health workers, let's get treatment centers, let's make sure people are housed. That'll bring safety. That disrupted.
Monifa Bandele (25:05):
You saw how disrupting it was in people's [inaudible 00:25:08] like, "I don't like that." Right? But we're able to step out and say these things boldly and say, "We can test new things." Right? What exists today didn't exist before someone created it. Somebody built this structure and they didn't look like me or you Fanshen. They didn't look like me or you Anya.
Anya Adams (25:26):
Right, right.
Monifa Bandele (25:27):
So what does the structure look like that the three of us build? How will safety in our communities and in our work look if we design it. So we don't just want reform, we want power to design new structures.
Fanshen Cox (25:39):
And the thing is I feel like there are small communities that have tried to implement that. I know it's a crazy news source, but the Daily Show did something on a community that had taken funding from the police and they have an active response group that doesn't respond with weapons and responds with how can we help solve this problem? And it's been working effectively. It's just so interesting that those little pilot programs are so effective and not yet known about-
Anya Adams (26:10):
Exactly. They don't get the press.
Monifa Bandele (26:12):
And they're popping up. They're popping up. So Anya, we need a storyline on this. [crosstalk 00:26:17]
Anya Adams (26:17):
I got my little book. I'm writing it down.
Monifa Bandele (26:24):
Austin Texas is launching it, so now you have a major city testing it out. So they've pulled all this money out of the police department and they're setting up mental health responders. So like what we saw with Daniel Prude or Walter Wallace, when the family calls 911 and says, "Hey, my loved one is having a manic episode." Police don't show up with guns blazing, right? There's an actual unit that comes for... they're actually therapists and psychologists and therapeutic nurses who can say, "Oh, this family needs help. This person actually needs healthcare." You know what I'm saying? And to resource that, I think that's the storyline because this time next year, they will have rolled it out and we can go back and say, "This is something that can now even be scaled up to an ever bigger city." We know it's going to work because that's what people want, people want care.
Fanshen Cox (27:14):
The good police, as many-
Monifa Bandele (27:16):
They agree. [crosstalk 00:27:18]
Fanshen Cox (27:17):
They don't want to do that aspect either. They don't want to have to confront folks that need another form of nurturing and care, so they can spend that time developing relationships in communities. They're not spending that time sending somebody, or in conflict with somebody who needs a different kind of service, which we'll just say that's the thing about defund the police is it's not... some folks really do want to and that's cool, but a lot of it is also redirecting those funds, right? Yeah, exactly.
Monifa Bandele (27:50):
It's a journey. Yeah, yeah absolutely. The biggest push back is funny. I wanted to say that we talked about okay, there's the mental health piece and a lot of the crime was people who were unhoused, homelessness and then there's the whole drug bucket, right? So when you do drug policy reform and you put in place treatment and healthcare. It's like not a whole lot is left to what you were saying Fanshen. Is there really a lot [inaudible 00:28:13] do? So we have policy makers say, "So what do we do? Because we needs all these jobs." Well if it's a jobs program you need, you know?
Fanshen Cox (28:22):
Here you... right.
Monifa Bandele (28:24):
[crosstalk 00:28:24]
Fanshen Cox (28:24):
Exactly. Let's fund that. That's... and again, to bring it back to what we're all saying is you can take this and put this into your storylines. Push for... if you're working on a crime show, speak out and say, "Wait a minute, we can represent this in a different way." And we should because that's what's going to change the narrative. We have so much power as storytellers. So anybody coming to you pitching a project, or Anya's on a set, this is our opportunity to say, "No, let's find a different way to tell this story." So that we're reflecting all of these other opportunities and resources that we could change what we had been... traditionally we're like, "It just has to be done." It doesn't have to be done that way. Let's keep pushing it.
Fanshen Cox (29:13):
Hey, it's Fanshen and you're listening to Sista Brunch. We will be right back and please, if you have not done this already, please go ahead and follow us on Twitter @SistaBrunch.
Fanshen Cox (29:22):
(Music.)
Anya Adams (29:22):
Welcome back to Sista Brunch. I'm Anya, let's get back to our conversation with Monifa Bandele.
Fanshen Cox (29:40):
You were talking about the guidelines for Hollywood to use in making sure there are safe sets. Do you have a way of measuring whether or not that's actually happening that you kind of evaluate and then redirect?
Monifa Bandele (29:54):
Yeah, that's what 2021 is all about. So now we want big shops to sign on to our safety campaign. What folks want now. They want to be connected to TIME'S UP. They want to be connected to Movement for Black Lives. So it's like okay, you're going to put up these banners and you want to co brand stuff. Well sign onto this guide. Sign onto the safety protocols and sign on to being able to have an independent audit that you are following these, that we're going back now. So we're going into year three and then we go into year four, we should be able to test that the women within your shop are having a different experience. So we've gone from education last year when we first released the guides and now we're moving into what we call, naming and shaming.
Monifa Bandele (30:40):
So naming could be... here's a big shot that won't sign onto the safety protocol. They don't want to sign it, right? They want to have women's history month programming, but they don't want to sign onto the safety guide for women.
Anya Adams (30:53):
What does that look like? Is that a big ad in Variety?
Fanshen Cox (30:57):
Yeah. How do we shame? Because let me take notes.
Anya Adams (31:00):
I'm just asking because on a smaller level, as directors we have people too that behave in ways that are inappropriate and I'm like trying to figure out how do we-
Fanshen Cox (31:09):
Name it and shame it, yeah.
Anya Adams (31:10):
Yeah.
Monifa Bandele (31:11):
That's what we are building out with our industry leaders. I'm making note of this ad in Variety.
Anya Adams (31:17):
What I tell you. Everyone would see it.
Monifa Bandele (31:22):
That's something that we've... I pull over from my organizing and activism. We'll do a billboards for a politicians that are behaving poorly, but then also we did this thing that I loved. It's like the mobile billboard. Have you seen the truck that's a billboard? And it goes through the community of the... you know?
Fanshen Cox (31:39):
Nice.
Anya Adams (31:39):
Yes. I love it.
Monifa Bandele (31:42):
The person who is behaving poorly, right?
Anya Adams (31:45):
This might be catty, but I also feel like we are mind for many, many stories and experiences and life. And so when a show runner or a company is not acting in our benefit, I wonder if there's just a way to mobilize us to be like, "Well maybe I'm just not going to work for Anya's company then." Because a big push right now is to get diversity in every level, and do you have a name or whatever. And it's like, "You guys got to do the work too." If you're not going to actively do the work, then we shouldn't actively be working to help you make money. That's the other side of it for me, you know? [crosstalk 00:32:24]
Monifa Bandele (32:25):
You are preaching a word. Look, it made me think of right away, we were chatting a little bit before we started about our young people going to HBCUs. Folks don't know the other colleges are hemorrhaging Black students. Students are turning down the highest most prestigious colleges, not just in the country, in the world because they're like, "Guess what? I don't need to do the work. I don't need to be in a toxic environment. I'm going to go to these institutions that were built and sustained by my community for me. And you guys need to work that out before I go."
Fanshen Cox (32:58):
And pay all that money to you, when I can get [crosstalk 00:33:03] become vice president by going to Howard.
Anya Adams (33:05):
Exactly.
Monifa Bandele (33:07):
When I talk to my friends who went PWIs, they're like, "I, somehow my picture was in all the brochures. Every time I saw..."
Fanshen Cox (33:12):
Yep.
Anya Adams (33:12):
Exactly.
Monifa Bandele (33:14):
A poster.
Anya Adams (33:17):
Exactly.
Fanshen Cox (33:17):
Tokenized us like nobody's business, but did we have any say on anything while we were there? No.
Monifa Bandele (33:22):
And at the same time, want you to feel like you should be so grateful to be there. [crosstalk 00:33:28] actuality, you're the asset. So that is... I think the same thing in the workplace. Not only should say, "Well we're not going to put our bodies in there," and at the same time, you're going to be building out companies that embody these values and principals, right? And that our pipeline to our young people coming out of the HBCUs and all these other places.
Fanshen Cox (33:48):
I love that about your point because when we... you're naming and shaming, but that doesn't mean only shaming. That also means the companies that are named that are signing on, that's how we know that's a place where I'll be comfortable working, you know what I'm saying?
Monifa Bandele (34:03):
You going to do the work.
Fanshen Cox (34:06):
I was going to ask and kind of make a point about, because I do a lot of work on the inclusion rider and a lot of the pushback we get on it is like, "Oh, we're already doing X, Y, Z." So let's say they say, "Oh no, we're already doing TIME'S UP safety measures." First of all, the response is, "These are different." Right? So these are all targeting different things. The second response is, "We'll sign all of it." There's no reason for you not to do any... all of these things and I think this is part of... I'll just say I want to keep going back to your quote from Alicia Garza about leader full, and how important everybody... whatever your job is in the industry, you can take a leadership role by saying, "I'm part of this team of people. I'm part of this universal group of people that are like, 'We are not going to stand for this anymore and it takes all of us.'"
Fanshen Cox (35:05):
So it's not just the Ava DuVernay's and it's not just TIME'S UP. We're all working towards the same goal and aren't you lucky that we got all these resources to do it from. But y'all companies need to sign on to all of them.
Monifa Bandele (35:22):
All of it and we have to call them out so that we know. You sign onto mine, but I know you didn't sign onto the inclusion, then you're not down with us either.
Fanshen Cox (35:31):
Exactly.
Monifa Bandele (35:32):
[crosstalk 00:35:32] we have to really be very transparent and open with these calls, so that they can't do that. They can't say, "Well we'll just be quiet. We'll put this up on our front page, we signed that." And we'll be like, "No, we saw you didn't sign the inclusion one." This is intersectional movement, right? One of the things that I didn't go deep in is we talked about how there's a caregiving crisis in the United States. So women are dropping out of the workforce because they do not have options for their caregiving responsibilities. I mean, I'm not just talking about children, that's the big chunk. But as women, we're caregivers for the elders in the family, for the folks in the family who may have chronic illnesses. So we are pushing hard on a caregiving package, so that the United States looks like other developed countries in the world.
Monifa Bandele (36:23):
Where things like child care and elder care are provided for. So if you want to be taking action on that, that has to be connected to COVID relief, sign up on our website because we're going to have ways that you can directly reach out to your senator, your member of congress and say, "We need this changed now." Then if you want to get our text alerts, you want to text TIME'S UP to 30644. Last year, we built the infrastructure, we created the conditions for massive change when you had 25 million people in the streets demanding justice. So now in 2021, we've got to be telling the decision makers, "We're not going back. We were calling you out last year, we need something that's really going to work for Black people, for people of color, for women, for families."
Fanshen Cox (37:17):
You have given us so much time. Can we mention that you are in Atlanta because you're bringing your daughter to your alma mater, because she's starting school there at Spelman. So we're just happy about that.
Monifa Bandele (37:30):
She is. Please name it. We have to really, really center joy in this moment and that's what I have learned from the Black queer feminist leaders of this day. They have been pushing that and said, "Look, it's so much trauma. We were constantly in the fire that when we do healing and wellness and we center joy, that's actually part of the resistance." When someone told me that, how revolutionary it was to center Black joy, it flipped my whole thing. So yes, I want to celebrate dropping off my daughter to college. I'm celebrating my older daughter goes to Howard. I'm celebrating you all and being here with you, because if we don't, I mean we'll just be worn down, ineffective and burnt out.
Fanshen Cox (38:17):
That's what they want. That's what they want. That's why I'm like, "No, no. We're going to get the joy. We're going to get the self care in."
Monifa Bandele (38:23):
Look, we know so much has to be done at the White House with the new administration, but when I turn on the TV and saw the Howard University drum line [crosstalk 00:38:33]
Fanshen Cox (38:35):
My goodness. That was joy.
Monifa Bandele (38:36):
Black woman vice president. I was like, "Whatever." [crosstalk 00:38:39] have to be up in there. I may have to [crosstalk 00:38:42] tomorrow at the White House on the side, you know? If Biden goes astray, I'll do that but I'm going to center this joy right now. I saw those 18, 19, 20 year old majorettes and I was just like... my heart was exploding for them with just love and joy.
Fanshen Cox (39:00):
I feel [crosstalk 00:39:01]
Anya Adams (39:00):
What a way to end the pod.
Fanshen Cox (39:04):
I know. I'm like, "That's a perfect, perfect way to end."
Anya Adams (39:05):
Listen to this pod and go with joy.
Fanshen Cox (39:12):
That was our conversation with TIME'S UP COO Monifa Bandele. Go to sistabrunch.com to find out more about her, her projects, where to follow her on social and also to get links to TIME'S UP and all of the great places you can go to get support that we talked about during the episode. And thank you so much, for real, for listening to Sista Brunch with Anya Adams and me, Fanshen Cox. Don't forget to visit timesupnow.org. Sign up for their newsletter. Find out more about how to take action against workplace discrimination and harassment. You can follow them @timesupnow on Instagram and Twitter, and also at TIME'S UP Official on Facebook to get all of their action alerts. Please also follow us. We are on Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast. We are also on Twitter @SistaBrunch and on Facebook at Facebook.com/sistabrunchpodcast. And please, please do this for us, it's so helpful for the show, subscribe and rate and review our show wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Fanshen Cox (40:31):
This episode was created in partnership with the TIME'S UP Foundation. Special thanks to Michelle Jones and [inaudible 00:40:37] Our show producer is Britney Turner. Our executive producer is Christabel Nsiah-Buadi. We acknowledge that the land we record our podcast is the original land of the Tongva people, for those of us in Los Angeles and the Coast Salish for Anya in Vancouver. Can't wait to see you next time, take care everybody.