Taylor K Shaw: Creating a Space for Black Women Animators
Episode Description:
Taylor K. Shaw, CEO and Founder of Black Women Animate, created the company in 2017 after noticing the lack of opportunities for Black women in animation. The company produces original content, offers production services, and trains and develops talent—all with the primary goal of lifting up women and nonbinary storytellers of color. In this episode Fanshen and Taylor discuss Taylor's path from journalism to animation and the community of allies who helped bring her vision to life.
TRANSCRIPT:
Fanshen Cox (00:11):
Welcome back to the Sista Brunch podcast with me Fanshen Cox. Now Anya is still off being a badass director and we will miss her so much. We can't wait for her to be back, but I promise she'll be back soon. Sista Brunch is a podcast about black women and non-binary folks striving and thriving in media entertainment and the arts. And we are so grateful and proud to be bringing you all of their stories.
Fanshen Cox (00:36):
Today's guest is Taylor K. Shaw. Now Taylor is the CEO and founder of Black Women Animate, which she created in 2017 after noticing the lack of opportunities for black women in animation. Ooh, tell me about it. I can't wait to dive into that and talk about all you're doing to change that.
Fanshen Cox (00:56):
The company produces original content, offers production services and trains and develops talent all with the primary goal of lifting up women and non-binary storytellers of color.
Fanshen Cox (01:08):
The company has created successful digital and television campaigns for the likes of Hulu, A&E, Warner Media. I'm going to add Pearl Street Films and TruJuLo in there because we're working on stuff together.
Fanshen Cox (01:21):
It is also done 2D and 3D TV development work for MTV Studios and Hello Sunshine along with contributing to TV shows airing on both Hulu and Netflix.
Fanshen Cox (01:33):
Taylor is also a writer and through DEI Consulting, she strengthens the cultural capital of socially conscious brands. She's a 2021 Forbes 30 under 30 honoree and a 2021 Shadow And Act Rising Executive award winner.
Fanshen Cox (01:50):
Oh my goodness. Welcome Taylor.
Taylor K. Shaw (01:53):
Wow. Fanshen. Thanks so much for having me. You did the long bio.
Fanshen Cox (01:57):
Hey listen, we didn't want to miss a beat. And that's the thing is that especially we have guests like you, that can inspire our listeners to know all of the things that they can do, especially at your age. I mean, I hope that's not age is to say, but I'm like, it's amazing everything you're doing. So we had to go all out.
Taylor K. Shaw (02:18):
Thank you. No. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. And I don't think that's ages at all. I think what I have been able to accomplish is really a testament honestly to community and what happens when folks pour into anyone, but especially a young black woman who has some dreams who is like, Hey, I want to do this. And for folks to rally around my vision, it really this company BWA and everything that I do. I mean, it's all about community. And so I think pointing out my age is a big plus, thank you to the folks who actually help me get here and ground me in the work.
Fanshen Cox (02:59):
I love it. I'll say a quick thank you also to Cheryl Bedford, who initially introduced us and speaking of community, she runs Women of Color United and that's where so many of us have been able to find each other and connect.
Fanshen Cox (03:12):
All right. So Taylor, take us back as far as you want to to kind of how this whole trajectory started, how did you end up where you are today?
Taylor K. Shaw (03:23):
Wow. Wow. Okay. I'll take you back to me being in journalism school. Back in that day I thought I wanted to be a talk show host.
Fanshen Cox (03:34):
I love it.
Taylor K. Shaw (03:37):
And then years go by, and I started to realize like, oh, but what stories are getting picked? Oh, the producer decides that. So then I started looking behind the scenes and I was thinking, okay, I want to decide what stories are getting picked for the news. And then I went on this sabbatical, if you will, this residency to South Africa, I had that opportunity when I was in journalism school. And my desire to be a journalist quickly kind of dissipated because I was in South Africa in Johannesburg, and I noticed that just like in the US, the people in positions of power at the news station, I mean this huge organization within South Africa, they were all white. All of the executives are white, but we are in South Africa where majority of the population is black.
Taylor K. Shaw (04:30):
So from there I was like, okay, journalism is not really the way for me because this isn't how I want to tell stories. I want to tell them more in depth. I want to be able to fully paint black folks as three dimensional characters. So that landed me hustling in Chicago and Atlanta trying to make it in TV and film. I ended up on some TV sets and I wasn't seeing... I was on a show actually that had a black lead made by a black woman who the executives behind the team was mostly white folks.
Taylor K. Shaw (05:00):
And so I was actually surprised. I mean, I know everybody listening here, a lot of folks are in the industry, and so people are like, oh duh. But at that time I was fresh out of college. I was like, wow, I can't believe this. And so I'm going to fast forward a bit more and just say my journey has always been about making black women feel seen and like we can have a place in entertainment.
Taylor K. Shaw (05:23):
And so BWA again came organically in me creating a show about black women from the south side of Chicago, like myself, it's animated, it's satirical, and I'm like, okay, great. Going to make this show, going to find some black women animators to make it happen. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy, no issues. And it was hard. It was hard. And so the goal now of BWA is it's the same as it always has been since we started it's to create a space where black women and non-binary folks of color can live and thrive as artists, can take on projects that they feel are reflective of who they are across the diaspora in a place that is a healthy work environment for us to be able to just make dope stuff together.
Taylor K. Shaw (06:08):
And so that's where my journey has taken me.
Fanshen Cox (06:11):
Okay, let's talk specifically about animation and how given your journey, given that wasn't that initial spark for you in animation, how did you even have the confidence to know that this thing that you didn't have a lot of experience in you could actually do?
Taylor K. Shaw (06:28):
Yeah. I had zero experience by the way. Like not a little, I had none. What gave me the confidence is love. Honestly, I do every thing out of love. That's just who I am and what I'm about. And again, community. And so my confidence and spirit of like stick to itness and making it happen from nothing really came from a place of this should exist. Why doesn't it? Somebody has to do it. I guess it's got to be me. And again, not me alone. I'm not interested in doing anything alone.
Taylor K. Shaw (07:00):
But yeah, really the love and I mean, I do have a producing background, so I was able to utilize that and myself as a creative, as a writer, I have always had a love for animation and appreciation of all different kinds of art forms, and so for me, what I look for in art is I like to say that I look for versatility and voice in the animation that we are, the artists that we look to hire, anybody that I'm really working with.
Taylor K. Shaw (07:27):
And so if I feel something from the work, if I feel like it connects to the story that we're looking to tell or our clients are looking to tell, then I can kind of just go from there. So instincts have been huge for me. Creative instincts have really helped me get here. And again, like collaborating with other brilliant minds, like our managing partner, JLove Calderón and a lot of the executives [crosstalk 00:07:50].
Taylor K. Shaw (07:50):
Yeah, JLove. The executives we have too, that we work with our senior consultant, Sidney Clifton, and an EP on the commercial side Priya Desai. And our core team I'm going to shout them out too, because really they all bring their own creative prowess and genius to the work.
Fanshen Cox (08:08):
Will you talk a little bit more about Sydney Clifton and any other kind of black women who are in animation that we know have not kind of had the spotlight that folks don't know about.
Taylor K. Shaw (08:20):
Sydney, she deserves the spot, like she is amazing. You only know her name if you know, and that has to change.
Taylor K. Shaw (08:31):
But from day one, I actually remember in 2017, when I received that first email from Sydney and we weren't a company yet we were actually a collective and Sydney emailed and said, what can I do to support this movement? And that's how she-
Fanshen Cox (08:48):
Oh, that's how it happened. That she that's learned about you and she reached out to you.
Taylor K. Shaw (08:50):
Yeah. And she reached out and she has been that person for us since that time. She has over, I think, 20 years of experience in animation, which how many black women do you know that actually have that. Her experience also expands beyond animation.
Taylor K. Shaw (09:07):
But Sydney is, as I talk about community and the people that continue to pour into BWA and myself, she is a grounding that, and she's been a mainstay when it's very hard for black women in animation to be mainstays. And so her just grounded energy is something that we lean on and her expertise just got an email from her this morning around like solution building on how we continue to scale our team. Sydney's there and working. Yeah, she's just amazing.
Fanshen Cox (09:39):
Yes as she should be.
Taylor K. Shaw (09:41):
Yeah. Yeah. She has a lot going.
Fanshen Cox (09:43):
And we'll mention only because I think it's relevant on this podcast, but this doesn't take anything away from her fabulousness. She is the daughter of Lucille Clifton. So it is just this. I had the opportunity to have kind of an animation 101 with you all. And I'm so grateful and it is exactly what you said, her nurturing, her kind of caring about the community is beautiful and she's an expert. And again, a name that is not broadly known, but will be for sure and deserves to be. So I just love it.
Fanshen Cox (10:19):
I also wanted to see if you want to talk about JLove Calderón, because she's such a good example of an ally. And when you talk about right, like how we get this work done with others we are certainly all about uplifting black women, but like a lot of this, we can't always get done without some of that love from ally. So I don't know if you wanted to just talk a little bit about her and what she does too.
Taylor K. Shaw (10:46):
Oh, absolutely. JLove is my heart and soul. I like to call her my wing giver for believing in me in like hitching her wagon to a 21 year old who was like, I want to do this and let's do it together. But JLove, she actually calls herself an accomplice. Yeah, she's about it. And when it comes down to it, like she's getting arrested with you, it's not just like, oh wow, that was wrong. Like, no I'm right here, present with you. And so JLove is accomplished.
Taylor K. Shaw (11:18):
It's so funny, pre pandemic we were like, we should really do more talks around our dynamic and how it is that she actually shows up as accomplice. Because what it requires is for her to actually prop up me and my dreams a lot more than maybe even her own.
Taylor K. Shaw (11:37):
And I think in our dynamic, what I understand also is my responsibility is like, yes, this is where we are now. And we will continue to put BWA first, our team make sure it grows in a sustainable and healthy way. And I also want to make sure that JLove is seen and honored and acknowledged for her work in uplifting and supporting us.
Taylor K. Shaw (11:58):
So thanks so much for asking about her, but I think with accomplishment of what a lot of folks should recognize is just because you are not at the forefront, just because you are being of service to the movement does not mean that you are necessarily erased or excluded.
Taylor K. Shaw (12:19):
It doesn't mean that. I think when people think about inclusion, they think about exclusion of white males. It's like, no, the table needs to grow and expand. And Jlove understands that, so the ego is removed.
Taylor K. Shaw (12:34):
And then I think for me as a leader and a CEO, when I think about how accomplices work with us, I also do consider really how I can support her. But also she's always looking to put BWA first. So it's a really interesting, and I think fresh way of work working, I mean, we're a business. Maybe you will find this maybe more in the nonprofit space. I'm not exactly sure, but I do want to keep talking more about our relationship because I would love to see more black women, especially be getting this kind of support from white people.
Fanshen Cox (13:11):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox. Stay tuned for more of our conversation with our incredible guest, the multi talented Taylor K. Shaw.
Fanshen Cox (13:37):
We're back. Check out more of our conversation with Taylor Kay Shaw.
Fanshen Cox (13:45):
We've talked about love and community. So now I'm going to be careful entering into this question because I like to give the listeners some heads up on barriers that are out there as well and how to navigate those barriers. So what is it like for you to be a black woman, a young black woman at that, who's got all of the dreams and the drive that you have and still there are barriers. So do you want to talk about some of those and how you navigate them.
Taylor K. Shaw (14:15):
Yeah. One big barrier is that black women founded businesses are nobody was throwing money at me. Like we are still totally self-funded, so we bootstrapped this company. So that's one barrier. I mean money.
Taylor K. Shaw (14:36):
Another being belief. I mean, when you don't have the resources to create the proof of concepts that you would like, and you're just asking people to trust your taste and that in your heart of hearts and in your mind that this is important, necessary, and also going to change the game. I mean, it's a hard sell it. It can be, it's a hard sell for me, but for this industry, right.
Fanshen Cox (15:00):
Right, right. You're right. We get it.
Taylor K. Shaw (15:02):
Right. Totally. So we actually had a company that we work with now, a studio, tell us someone there. Our company will never work with you because of the name of your company.
Taylor K. Shaw (15:16):
So we'll never work with you because the name of your company is Black Women. Animate. It's too divisive.
Taylor K. Shaw (15:23):
Yeah, we work with them now, but,
Fanshen Cox (15:26):
And now you work with them right?
Taylor K. Shaw (15:27):
Yeah, now We work with them. Yeah, because the shift is happening. I mean, that's why I'm so happy to be talking with y'all at Sista Brunch. It is happening, but it takes us like just being steadfast and knowing the importance of just like our predecessors, what my thinking is not new. But I think what has really worked for me is that I am a straight shooter. And so with the company being named-
Fanshen Cox (15:55):
Yes you are.
Taylor K. Shaw (15:56):
Yeah, with it being named-
Fanshen Cox (15:58):
But you do it with a smile and I'm not saying everybody needs to do it with a smile, but there is something special about your delivery of it. And again, no tone police and whatsoever like everybody needs to do it the way that is good for their self care, but your approach to it, I can see that kind of helping out in some cases when folks are fearful or whatever, when they say things like we'll never work with you because you're divisive, yeah.
Taylor K. Shaw (16:25):
Yeah. I think my smile is that confidence we were talking about earlier, the confidence that is going to happen with or without you. And I think that's the attitude that we have to have. It's like you either want to work with us or you don't. But the people that work at BWA, the people who have similar dreams to mine, like we're going to make it happen.
Fanshen Cox (16:45):
Yes. With or without you.
Taylor K. Shaw (16:47):
Right. The liberation of black folks has been happening and we're going to keep making it happen. So it's either you want to work with us or you don't, but if you don't now the cost goes up. When you come back years later, the price is very different.
Fanshen Cox (17:03):
Yep. I love it.
Taylor K. Shaw (17:05):
Yeah. And so I just really try to, I mean, there are a ton of barriers, so I try to keep a cool head and remain calm in this phase that we're at, I'm just really focused on building the work culture that pushes up against the industry, which I think is a challenge because people aren't used to stepping into a work environment where it's like, oh, I care about you and your feelings. We don't want to be like every other Hollywood company. We actually want people to have a healthy work-life balance and so that's what we're working towards and working on every day.
Taylor K. Shaw (17:41):
And so doing that work, it is a challenge because people are like, oh, is this really like this safe of an environment? And so that's a challenge. I think for me is a happy challenge I think to have, is to let people know, like this is not a game. Like this is serious.
Taylor K. Shaw (17:58):
We used to work with one woman and we're having like a deeper conversation of how we could work together, and she was like, I'm just wondering like when the two white guys in suits are going to come out of the corner and be like, this is a drill, like, this is not real. And I'm like, no, this is actually real. Like JLove and I are these people who do care and want to do things differently.
Fanshen Cox (18:19):
Oh, I love it. Okay. So you talked a little bit about work culture and environment. Can you take us through a work day in the life of Taylor K. Shaw.
Taylor K. Shaw (18:30):
Woo.
Taylor K. Shaw (18:33):
So what's interesting is that since and I spent the last couple of years and we'll keep spending time really prioritizing BWA and making sure that it can be the equity blueprint that I would like for it to be for the industry. And as we encourage everybody that actually works at BWA to do is I am also really focused this year on maintaining my own creativity and writing a ton. And I think that really just helps, of course it helps me as an artist feel fulfilled and helps the company because if that's how I'm spending my time being creative, it lends itself to the company. And also I hope that energy reverberates to the people that work at BWA.
Taylor K. Shaw (19:21):
So my days are split between meetings with team, with potential clients and partners and writing. And so I spend about like on average, I mean, you got to take a break sometimes during the writing, but on average, like maybe like 20 hours a week.
Fanshen Cox (19:40):
Wow. Oh my goodness.
Taylor K. Shaw (19:42):
Really working on writing, and sometimes I'm in a workshop that happens every other week. That's a few hours. I was in a writing class that I just wrapped up and then on the BWA front always available and just really making sure that my team has what they need. So over the next few months is we're prepping ourselves to be able to take on more team. And so we're looking at our systems and how we can just continue to improve them so we can welcome new people with open arms and also take on all of this work, because the demand is really there.
Fanshen Cox (20:18):
It's a good point because one of the things that the industry saw very clearly during the pandemic was that animation was the only piece of the entertainment industry that just kept going. And not only just kept going, grew, because you didn't have the same kind of physical in real life restrictions that you have on set.
Fanshen Cox (20:39):
So did you see that? And of course then there were the protests against police brutality and violence and murder. And did you see a shift due to those things that just kind of happened as you were also forming this business?
Taylor K. Shaw (20:55):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean animation was the only thing that we could do and post George Floyd, everybody wanted to hire black people and tell more black stories. So that's great. So we did get a lot more business because of that in 2022, 2021, because of both of those factors.
Fanshen Cox (21:19):
Do you see that waning now? Do you see folks being like, all right, you had your moment, move on or is it still moving?
Taylor K. Shaw (21:27):
I think because our team is so great and we did such great work in those years, the demand is still there and folks want to build with us at a greater scale. The partners that we have, they want to like continue doing more and more projects with us. And then there's always new folks that want to work with us.
Taylor K. Shaw (21:45):
Animation. I think isn't really going any anywhere. Animation is just growing and growing and growing. And I think we are benefiting from the moment that we're in with just like, I mean, I know some studios are trying to put out a crazy amount of animated kids features and shows every year.
Taylor K. Shaw (22:02):
So yeah, I think we're benefiting from the streaming era and how folks need content, content content, or they want content, content content. And so we've been blessed in that way.
Taylor K. Shaw (22:17):
We haven't had to go out and pitch our services yet, which we would like to be able to do. But I just share that to really say that once you find your niche and your intention with it, like build it and they will come. We just put our head down and we do the work and that's really what BWA I wanted to continue to be about. Because even in that post George Floyd, some of the people that are reaching out to us is like, okay, why do you want to work with us? No, your values aren't aligned and not interested in your token. We were able to sass out who we actually want to build with? So we're also selective.
Fanshen Cox (22:58):
You are in the position to say no. And that is a beautiful thing. That again, like back to the idea of community, it's because of all the work of all this community that we are now in the position to be able to go back and say, no, we don't align with your principles and values and that's beautiful.
Taylor K. Shaw (23:14):
Absolutely. And I want to point out, that is not because we're rolling in the cash at that time, it's because I put our values first and I think that's important to share again, we are totally self-funded so for us, like every dollar does count. So if I'm saying know to the bigger social media platform that's out there is because like long term, this is not the right move for our company.
Fanshen Cox (23:41):
Okay, it's Fanshen and you're listening to Sista Brunch, we'll be right back. And if you haven't done this already, we would love it if you would follow us on Twitter at Sista Brunch on Instagram at Sista Brunch Podcast, and you can also find us on Facebook at facebook.com/Sista Brunch podcast. Go ahead and leave us a comment on any of those socials, slide in the DMs, share your news with us. We want to hear what you're up to. We want to hear if you have guest ideas, we want to know if you want to be a guest, let us know who you are. And we want to celebrate all your hard work with you.
Fanshen Cox (24:17):
Taylor, since you've mentioned a couple times that you're self-funded, which is, I mean, just let me say my goodness. Not to say it's something we should strive for because folks should be funding us. Right?
Taylor K. Shaw (24:28):
Yeah.
Fanshen Cox (24:29):
And at the same time it reflects what we're capable of. Are you able to comfortable with talking about salary ranges, like given that, what are you able to kind of survive on or thrive on? What do animators make just for our listeners to know if this is an industry or part of the industry they want to enter into, are there kind of salary ranges you're able to talk about to just have them be more informed?
Taylor K. Shaw (24:56):
Yeah. I think that's a little challenging for me to talk about because a part of my politic is making sure that black women get paid. And so I think we probably pay people definitely on par, but I try to pay people a bit more if I can. Again, like I say, we're self funded, so I try to pay them a bit more.
Taylor K. Shaw (25:19):
So I'm not sure if I can provide like ranges for folks. It really also on animation is so nuanced, it depends on skillset and just different companies do different things. There is an animation guild as well that folks can look into and see about those rates.
Taylor K. Shaw (25:38):
If you're breaking in. I think it's always good to just think about as for all artists is just, what's a living wage. What can you live on? And then hopefully you can ask a bit more than that.
Taylor K. Shaw (25:49):
I started this company when I was a production assistant and I made 50K and I was putting most of my money into the company. So I was just like bare minimum expenses. And 50K in New York. But I do know actually another organization, that's doing a like paper on these race and I'll share that resource because I think they're working on it right now and they're going to put it out.
Fanshen Cox (26:14):
Great. We'll share that. And again, I think going to the guilds of course, for animation, there's the writer's guild and the animators guild. I didn't know you all have one too, so that's great. Those are great places to go. And just at the rate so that you've got a starting point for negotiations even, or a way to budget for what your future might look like.
Fanshen Cox (26:36):
Taylor, we're coming to the end. Do you have any kind of general advice for our listeners? You've given so much already, but anything that you want to make sure you end with and also how can we support you? Support your work?
Taylor K. Shaw (26:51):
Yeah, my advice would be to follow both your head and your heart and allow them to communicate with each other. That's something that been really working on and trying to break down these barriers. I've done so much with my head and I have chronic migraines. I think a part of that is my head is doing too much work. So I've really been working on dropping into my body and speaking from the heart and letting the heart make more decisions. So my recommendation for folks is to pay more attention to your heart also, it never really steers you too wrong. Use the head too, still, just both.
Taylor K. Shaw (27:33):
And then create, create, create, the journey is long. Nothing happens in a day. Nothing's happened for us in a day. The things we have going now, really the seeds were planted when we started. There were some dry years and I'm sure in the future, there's going to be time things are dry and there's going to be times when things are just flourishing, that's just life.
Taylor K. Shaw (27:55):
So I think if you create, create, create and you believe in what you're making, your spirit can be full even as you wait.
Fanshen Cox (28:02):
Oh my goodness. Oh yeah. Thank you so much Taylor, for being here for taking the time out of your very busy day to spend with us here on Sista Brunch and we are sending all big love to your head and your heart as you move forward, we got you sister. We got you.
Taylor K. Shaw (28:23):
Thank you so much, sister.
Fanshen Cox (28:30):
Thank you for listening to Sista Brunch with me, Fanshen Cox and usually with my fabulous co-host Anya Adams. This was our conversation with Taylor K. Shaw. Visit sistabrunch.com so you can find out more about Taylor and how to support all her upcoming projects.
Fanshen Cox (28:48):
You can follow us on Instagram at Sista Brunch Podcast. Guess what, we are also on Twitter. Yes, we are at Sista Brunch and we are on Facebook probably for the older folks. I'm certainly there. It's where I am most of the time. facebook.com/sistabrunchpodcast.
Fanshen Cox (29:06):
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Fanshen Cox (29:26):
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Fanshen Cox (29:48):
Our senior producer is Sonata Lee Narcisse, our show producer is Brittany Turner and our executive producer is Christabel Nsiah-Buadi.
Fanshen Cox (29:57):
We acknowledge that the land we record our podcast on is the original land of the Tongva people for those of us in Los Angeles, we cannot wait to share more of these wonderful, amazing women with you. Take good care, everybody.