Tre’vell Anderson - Claiming Space
Episode Description:
Tre’vell Anderson (they/them) is an award-winning journalist, social curator, podcast host and author. Their insightful contribution to the conversation around culture, LGBTQ issues, inclusivity and diversity led to them being named one of The Root’s 100 most influential African Americans of 2020. In this episode, Fanshen and Tre’vell discuss Tre’vell’s path to journalism, their work advocating for marginalized communities and their exciting new book projects.
TRANSCRIPT:
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FANSHEN: Welcome back to Sista Brunch, the podcast all about black women and gender-expansive people thriving in entertainment and media. And we are now in our fourth season. We encourage you to listen back to our previous guests on Apple or Spotify podcasts and find ways to lift up and encourage these guests that we've had. If you've got questions about the entertainment and media industries, we'd love to hear your voice and your question. You can leave us a voicemail at 424-587-4870.
00:00:42:15 - 00:01:13:04
FANSHEN: And we might just play your question on a future episode. We also want to share some love from our listeners who leave us reviews. So this one is from Denver Sales Mom, and she says, "Inspiring. Love these voices and wish all creatives would listen." We do too. "While I'm not in the industry, I appreciate hearing about challenges leading to successes and the continued passion and drive they have to uplift and support more women in show business." Thank you so, so much.
00:01:13:06 - 00:01:56:11
FANSHEN: Denver Sales Mom. And if you are listening right now and you are loving our show, go ahead and subscribe rate and leave us a review as well. I'm your host Fanshen Cox. And today's guest is Tre'vell Anderson. Tre'vell is an award-winning journalist, social curator, podcast host, and author. Hailing from Charleston, South Carolina. Their insightful contribution to the conversation around culture, LGBTQ issues, inclusivity, and diversity led to them being named one of the Ruth's 100 most influential African Americans of 2020 and one of Fanshen's consistent, most influential people of 2022 and beyond.
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FANSHEN: They were the previous president of the National Association of Black Journalists, L.A., otherwise known as NABJ, L.A. and you can sometimes find them as a commentator on MSNBC, NPR, or Good Morning America. Welcome, Tre'vell Anderson.
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TRE'VELL: Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
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FANSHEN: We're so glad you're here. All right. So Tre'vell, we always start off every episode hoping to lend some inspiration by sharing our journeys of how we ended up being the amazing person that we are today. So how did you start?
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TRE'VELL: Well, you know. It was always my destiny to be amazing.
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FANSHEN: We knew it. Yes
00:02:41:21 - 00:02:43:00
TRE'VELL: I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. Sort of.
00:02:44:20 - 00:03:21:03
TRE'VELL: I started, as you mentioned, I'm from Charleston, South Carolina. I am a child of a woman who was in the Army for 23 years. Single mother. My grandmother, who was a pastor in Charleston, South Carolina, Dorothy Montgomery Holmes, helped raise us. I list all of those things to just give you a context, give the folks context on this voice that you are listening to because I know you're hearing a few things and you're like, What's happening? And I kind of got my start, my formal start in this, this industry as a journalist at the Los Angeles Times.
00:03:21:11 - 00:04:02:09
TRE'VELL: I went to Morehouse for undergrad and then I went to Stanford for grad school, got my Master's in journalism, started at the L.A. Times few months later in their diversity fellowship program, which I could talk at length about diversity fellowship programs. And, you know, the unfortunate way that that ends up being some of the only opportunities that we as folks of color, as women, as queer people, trans people, get our foot in a door. But I did that, ended up being at the L.A. Times for four years. While I was there, I created my own beat of diversity in Hollywood with a focus on black and queer film, started covering these issues that it's on the you know, these issues that are on the tip of everybody's tongue now.
00:04:03:03 - 00:04:12:10
TRE'VELL: I love to say, because it's factual, that I was doing it before it was in vogue. But, you know, I won't toot my horn too much.
00:04:13:29 - 00:04:15:23
FANSHEN: I will. I'll do all of it.
00:04:16:09 - 00:04:48:28
TRE'VELL: Four years at the L.A. Times. I left The L.A. Times to go to Out Magazine as their director of culture and Entertainment. I was there for about of a little over a year before getting laid off, two days before Christmas 2019. But I always say in retrospect, it was the best thing that happened to me because it set me off on this path of freelancing and being an independent content creator and social curator and world changer, as I like to say. And as you mentioned, I've got a couple of books coming out in 2023 that we can talk about later.
00:04:49:07 - 00:04:55:00
TRE'VELL: Do a couple podcast things as well. You know, I just be running my mouth about a lot of things.
00:04:55:04 - 00:05:07:14
FANSHEN: Well, so so speaking of that, before you went to Morehouse, how did you even know what journalism was, kind of what your niche within journalism would be? How did what were those early seeds planted for you?
00:05:07:16 - 00:05:41:06
TRE'VELL: Yeah, well, so I should say my original I had two original career choices. Neither one of them were journalism. The first one I wanted to be Elle Woods in Legally Blonde. Okay. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. And, you know, click clack in. In into the courtroom in my own special way. And then other than that, I wanted to be a chef. But my mama said that she wasn't going to pay for me to go to school to be a chef because she thought it was a hobby. We've worked through that since, but whatever. And so journalism for me, kind of came to me while I was in high school.
00:05:41:10 - 00:06:14:17
TRE'VELL: I was on the Model United Nations team at my school. We were nationally ranked champions for, like, 23 years in a row. My year in which I ended up being president was year 22. But I, the advisor for the Model United Nations program, was also the advisor over the like Convergence Media Magnet program at my school. And so she oversaw the newspaper and the broadcast and the yearbook. And she was just like she like, she responded to my writing style very well in the context of my United Nations.
00:06:14:19 - 00:06:51:10
TRE'VELL: And she was like, You should check out the newspaper. Ended up joined the newspaper just writing like opinion pieces, which was like, you know, I felt so much power as a high school student, being able to just say what I wanted. I shouldn't say say what I wanted. There were parameters, but like, that was the first time that I saw, like the power of the written word, if you will. Like, I was I was writing articles, I was writing op-ed pieces, basically trying to take down the the the entire school for like, you know, rumors about people being gay and, you know, funny part is, I was very much so queer at the time, but I wasn't out and they were playing games.
00:06:51:12 - 00:06:53:01
FANSHEN: You weren't out. Okay. Yeah.
00:06:53:03 - 00:07:27:06
TRE'VELL: So, you know, it was, you know, that complex living that some of us ended up having to do. But that's how journalism was like introduced to me. And then when I went to Morehouse, it just continued as kind of an extracurricular activity. I was working on the school newspaper there that we called the Maroon Tiger. And eventually I'll say, you know, I set out to be a lawyer, took all of those necessary classes and discovered that, oh, that's not it for me. Changed my major like 12 times. By the time senior year came, I was selected as managing editor of our newspaper.
00:07:27:13 - 00:08:04:06
TRE'VELL: I didn't know what I wanted to do career-wise, but the most consistent thing with me throughout my time in school was the student newspaper. And so I was like, Well, why don't we try this out for size? And I had known a few of the graduates in the years before me who went to grad school to become a journalist. And so that's why I went to grad school. But there wasn't really there wasn't really a person or an entity that like, made me say that I could do the work that I'm doing. You know, some people are like, oh, such and such was like a good, you know, possibility model that I could look at to let me know that, like, I could be a journalist.
00:08:04:08 - 00:08:11:13
TRE'VELL: I didn't have that person. I was like, you know, making it up as I went along. Still making it up, if we're being honest.
00:08:11:15 - 00:08:43:27
FANSHEN: Well, yeah, that's a that's what we have to do. But that is very much who you are now for a lot of young people. And that's why I was so glad to have you on because, you know, we are kind of demographics skew around both. We got some older folks because we older folks, I'm proud I'm 52 and happy with that. But also we've got a lot of young people that we want to inspire. And so I want to follow up on that with you. You mentioned that you weren't out in high school. At what point did you come out and I'm curious if that was any way connected to your career as a journalist.
00:08:43:29 - 00:08:52:23
FANSHEN: Like was it about like telling stories about other people? And then you were like, wait a minute, but I got to be truthful about my own, or how did you know? How did that piece come out?
00:08:52:25 - 00:09:24:00
TRE'VELL: Yeah, so I've had a couple of coming outs, you know, as a non-binary trans person. The first one when I just like came out quote unquote as gay, queer or whatever. I actually was forced out the closet. I've told this story before, so and my grandmother's dead, so she'll be fine. But long story short, she kind of like, forced me out of the closet in a way that was not helpful and yet still wants that kind of disclosure among family was done.
00:09:24:04 - 00:09:59:01
TRE'VELL: I do think that that helped me, like, you know, just become more secure and who I was. This happened, I want to say, sophomore or junior year of college. And so that definitely that that definitely helped there. That was the sexuality part of it. The gender part of it came while I had my own personal journey with it, and acceptance of it came largely while I was in grad school. But then the kind of public unfolding and ongoing disclosure happened as I was at the Los Angeles Times and I was, you know, wearing.
00:09:59:17 - 00:10:58:11
TRE'VELL: They had met me in a way that they had perceived me as, you know, this young black queer person who young black queer man. Right. Who was doing this diversity in Hollywood things. But then I started like, you know, getting gel manicures and wearing heels to the office and wearing dresses to the office. And like, having to navigate that social transition right within the workplace as a trans person, as a non-binary person, changing my pronouns and whatnot. And I will say at the time of that kind of personal journey, becoming part of my professional journey, I realized that all of the hesitation and pushback that I had already received as just like a black gay at the time journalist was being magnified because now, like I was already being told that I could not be the type of journalist that that came most natural to me and how I showed up in spaces.
00:10:59:01 - 00:11:29:15
TRE'VELL: I was already being told that. And then now you mean I am showing up to the office with high heels on? And then. Now you mean I'm showing up to the Golden Globes red carpet in a dress and heels? Right to do my job as as as the representative of the Los Angeles Times. There was just a lot of of of general uncertainty, I guess, or pushback around what a journalist is supposed to look like and how a journalist is supposed to carry themselves.
00:11:29:23 - 00:12:03:26
TRE'VELL: And my personal identities were already in conflict with a lot of that. So as I came more and more into myself, both personally and professionally, it kind of became one of those things where it was like, you know. If you're going to be secure in who you are, you have to be secure and who you are. Right? And that means being able to push past or beyond, you know, these different folks as expectation of who's going to walk in the room when they know that they're interviewing with the Los Angeles Times.
00:12:04:06 - 00:12:27:21
TRE'VELL: And I can tell you, ten out of ten times, it was not me. And so like, that's kind of how the career stuff and the gender stuff in particular, but sexuality as well kind of grew. And I do I do think that being as comfortable as I was in who I am, it lent itself to the work that I was doing around diversity in Hollywood, around authenticity built around that space.
00:12:27:24 - 00:12:32:04
FANSHEN: Yeah right, you're the representation of it. Right. Absolutely. You're vetted in that.
00:12:35:15 - 00:12:49:02
FANSHEN: This is Sista Brunch, the podcast by and about black women and gender-expansive people thriving in entertainment and media. Stay tuned for more of our conversation with our guest and social curator slayer Tre'vell Anderson.
00:13:06:12 - 00:13:09:08
FANSHEN: We're back and ready to chat more with Tre'vell Anderson.
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FANSHEN: On a recent episode of FANTI. So everybody Tre'vell and my dear friend Jarrett Hill also have an incredible podcast called FANTI, which we'll talk about some. But on a recent episode, you talked about how sometimes it's exhausting to also carry the burden of that while also just wanting to be a journalist and us not always being like the black journalist or the queer journalist, but also just like the journalist. So I'd love to transition now into like your journalism life, what that looks like.
00:13:42:09 - 00:13:59:26
FANSHEN: You obviously have to wear many hats, many of them fabulous, like the head cover you got on today. But like, you know, career hats, too, and work and skill hats. So can you talk about kind of like all the things that you juggle to make you so successful in everything that you do?
00:14:00:11 - 00:14:13:20
TRE'VELL: Yeah, well, you know, I kind of realized while I was at the L.A. Times that the container of journalism, as it has been, cannot contain me. Right. And I don't say that to be, you know.
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FANSHEN: Just like, gender can't contain you. All these other labels can't, right. Love it.
00:14:19:27 - 00:14:52:13
TRE'VELL: None of it can contain me, not because I don't want it to contain me. I would love to feel held by the journalism industry. Right? But it refuses to in so many different ways, right? And that shows up in terms of who gets hired for the jobs. It shows up in terms of who gets covered in the in the stories, etc. Right. And so because of that, I stopped trying to fit myself into the container. Right. I got comfortable saying, oh, I don't fit over there.
00:14:53:18 - 00:15:31:27
TRE'VELL: I'm. I'm over here, and that's okay. Right. But also being able to claim the space where I stand as journalism as well. That container over there can be journalism. It has been journalism. But what I do over here can also be and is also journalism. And so out of the many things that I do career-wise, you know, it's that label that is important to me for so many different reasons because of, one, the work that I put in to be a journalist, but also because we have to begin to think differently, right.
00:15:31:29 - 00:15:53:09
TRE'VELL: About how folks can show up in these various titles and in these various spaces. Because when we are thinking that a journalist is a, you know, white man with his button down in his khakis and his, you know, leather shoes. Right. That's the reason why I didn't have anybody to necessarily model. Right. Right. What I'm doing.
00:15:53:17 - 00:15:59:12
FANSHEN: Or even a journalist is appears in a hard copy newspaper, right?
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TRE'VELL: Absolutely.
00:16:00:02 - 00:16:24:13
FANSHEN: All of that. That's what I love about what you reflect to the world is like the you know, that that old guard which has been white, cis, male, right. Is if y'all aren't flexible around what this thing looks like, it's going to harm you more than it's going to harm any of us because we creating a whole new world of what you know, what media and journalism looks like.
00:16:24:15 - 00:16:31:26
TRE'VELL: Yeah, absolutely. And so that that's part of the reason why I'm I'm I have my hand in so many different things now is because.
00:16:31:29 - 00:16:32:24
FANSHEN: Let's talk about all those.
00:16:33:07 - 00:17:05:12
TRE'VELL: All those things. So you mentioned the podcast FANTI that I co-hosted with our friend Jarett Hill. It's like a weekly. We say it's the space to have complex and complicado conversations about the gray areas in our lives, about the people, places and things that you love that you're huge fans of but have some anti-feelings toward. Hence the name FANTI. And so that's fun. We do it every week. The topics run the gamut from Tyler Perry and you know his let's call them contributions to culture,
00:17:07:23 - 00:17:47:14
TRE'VELL: to you know, politics, to Kanye West and his foolishness to, you know, one of my favorite episodes that we've done, which is I think was our third episode. We've been doing it for three years. We talked about gospel music. And for us as black queer people, the unique relationships that we have to gospel music and religion and spirituality. And so the conversations, you know, really run the gamut there. That's super fun. I also co-host a daily news podcast over at Crooked Media called What a Day. It's like a 20 to 30-minute podcast every morning, every weekday morning that recaps the news that you need to know and why you need to know it.
00:17:47:22 - 00:17:58:02
TRE'VELL: And so I'm over there with three women of color, Josie Duffy Rice, Priyanka Aribindi, and Juanita Tolliver And we we give you the news every morning.
00:17:58:05 - 00:18:01:16
FANSHEN: But like from y'all's perspective with y'all's lens.
00:18:01:18 - 00:18:35:13
TRE'VELL: Oh It's got, it's got some razzle dazzle to do It do has some razzle dazzle to it that you won't get off of, you know, your cable news prognosticators and whatnot. Right. And so that's another kind of sliver of of the work that I do. I'm still a freelancer. So you can you know, you might see my words pop up in a variety of different places, from Essence to the L.A. Times and Out magazine and, you know, Esquire, etc.. And then I'm writing two books, so I've written two books that will come out next year.
00:18:35:15 - 00:18:38:10
FANSHEN: Let's do that right now. Let's talk about both books.
00:18:38:13 - 00:18:48:25
TRE'VELL: Yes. For whatever reason I have I wrote two books at the same time. Would not advise. Do not do that, y'all. But nevertheless, I persisted and we made it happen.
00:18:50:12 - 00:19:24:01
TRE'VELL: The first book is my book. It is called We See Each Other a Black Trans Journey through TV and film that comes out in May. It's part history of trans images on screen since the beginning of moving images, part memoir, and part of it is also kind of documenting, in particular the last decade of trans representation, which I have happened to be able to, you know, be part of in some ways as a journalist. Also, as I was in a documentary called Disclosure on Netflix, in case anybody may or may not have.
00:19:24:03 - 00:19:25:05
FANSHEN: Seen that documentary.
00:19:25:07 - 00:19:30:12
TRE'VELL: So that's that book. It comes out in May. It will be available for preorder at the top of the year.
00:19:30:14 - 00:20:06:10
FANSHEN: Thank you for the historical context piece, because I think, I think for all of us who are constantly kind of like looking and relooking at our identities, etc., a lot of times we kind of get stuck in the contemporary like, this is who I am today. And that's important because it also means that it's fluid, right? And it it can keep we, we keep evolving, but at the same time, there are folks from long ago who couldn't live in the ways that we live. And I think talking about that also allows us a little more liberation in terms of who we are now. Right.
00:20:06:18 - 00:20:07:03
TRE'VELL: Absolutely.
00:20:07:05 - 00:20:16:08
FANSHEN: That we don't, we're not having to feel like we're just starting right now. There are you know, there are all these other examples. So I'm so excited that you are doing that.
00:20:16:27 - 00:20:36:05
TRE'VELL: Yeah. You know, and I'll just say really quickly there, like one of the motivations for doing the book for me was about like kind of as an antidote or like a response to this, you know, sociopolitical moment wherein as it relates to transpeople and non-binary folks in which everybody makes it seem like we dropped out of the sky with Laverne Cox on "Orange is the New Black", right?
00:20:36:07 - 00:20:36:22
FANSHEN: Right.
00:20:36:24 - 00:20:46:28
TRE'VELL: But there is a long legacy and history of trans people and gender nonconforming aesthetics across cultures, across history. Right. Since the beginning of time.
00:20:47:03 - 00:21:17:04
TRE'VELL: And my book obviously primarily focuses on what we've seen on screen. But there's some of that broader kind of cultural context also in the book. But for me, it's about having a conversation about how, you know, vaudeville and female impersonation and drag dating back to, you know, not just Tyler Perry and what he does, but RuPaul as well as Flip Wilson, as well as all the way back to Gilbert Sereny.
00:21:17:06 - 00:21:48:29
TRE'VELL: Right. Those types of references are in the book. And I try to trace, you know, that journey to how we got here with a little bit of my own personal journey. I think people will be really interested in it, but it is it is all about asserting the legacy in the history that already exists. Right. And contextualizing this moment that we're currently in. Hopefully, you all will enjoy that. And then the second book that I'm doing with Jarrett, my co-host on FANTI, it's called "Historically Black Phrases". And it is going to be this like coffee table.
00:21:49:05 - 00:22:24:20
TRE'VELL: It's this coffee table like gift book, if you will. This dictionary of these phrases that we have deemed historically black, we put definitions to them. We've got some essays we've interviewed folks for talking about the richness of the black tongue, primarily the African American black tongue. But we bring in, you know, some Caribbean folks, some you know, Haitian folks and and how the black American tongue, you know, it is both not a monolithic, you know, entity.
00:22:24:27 - 00:22:46:05
TRE'VELL: And yet there are some things that transcend geographic placement and. Age. And gender and sexuality. And so we kind of just put that all in a book as an ode to, you know, the specificity, uniqueness in wondrousness of how we talk. And that'll be out in September.
00:22:46:08 - 00:23:19:20
FANSHEN: I can't wait, which is another one where there was this great TikTok, I must say, recently, but who knows? It's probably been out for a long time to my old ass just saw it. But it's the ways we laugh. I'm watching it and I'm like, Wait a minute. And I was like, that is like, only we laugh that way. And so we're constantly fighting one on, on one hand of being like, don't know, essentialist, you know, portraits of us like we're, we're broad, but then some shit you, you point out and you're like, oh my Lord, that is very specific to us.
00:23:20:14 - 00:23:21:00
TRE'VELL: And then there's even.
00:23:21:09 - 00:23:22:03
FANSHEN: I can't wait.
00:23:22:05 - 00:23:34:18
TRE'VELL: We've even realized in the process of putting the book together that like there even is, it can be the same word or the same phrase, but like the inflection changes its meaning.
00:23:34:29 - 00:23:35:14
FANSHEN: Yes.
00:23:35:19 - 00:24:12:28
TRE'VELL: You know, or the gesture that comes along with it changes its meaning. And so, like, our language isn't just about the words that we say. It's also about the sounds. It's also about the body movements. It's just like, you know, we've tried to put together is like this, like accessible, like really round the way girl type approach to linguistics, right? And it's been like a really enjoyable process. So I'm so excited for you all to get the chance to check that out. We're like literally in the process of like going through design layout stuff right now. And so that's been an interesting process for sure.
00:24:13:03 - 00:24:27:13
FANSHEN: A last thing on that is I was I was telling my husband that I'm so excited about this today and and I was describing all that you are and I was like I'm one of my favorite things is Tre'vell does not code switch and I want to know how you get.
00:24:29:11 - 00:25:04:23
FANSHEN: I want to know how like I was about to say and incorrectly how do you get away with it? Because you're not getting away with anything. You're like, you're just so like, this is me and you've just described it, right, everything, as a journalist. And obviously, there are some things that you just have to do because there are standards or whatever they call them at your work. But the way, and I think this is connected to historically black phrases in the sense that, like y'all are saying, like, look, this is how we talk. Like, my biggest hope is for us to be be like, we're going to keep talking like, this right?
00:25:05:00 - 00:25:21:00
FANSHEN: And, you know, everybody can read it. It's out there in the public for everybody read. But like, we're not going to we're not going to silence ourselves or say it quietly again. Like, we get to just speak this way. How do you work that? Or is it just you where you're just like, this is how I speak?
00:25:21:11 - 00:25:36:08
TRE'VELL: You know, it's interesting that you bring this up because in the life of the podcast that we have done with FANTI, we we always say that like we make our podcast for black folks, primarily black queer folks, but you know the rest y'all can listen in too.
00:25:39:08 - 00:25:39:23
FANSHEN: We appreciate you. Yes.
00:25:39:25 - 00:26:14:29
TRE'VELL: And we happen to have a very vocal white listenership, in part because of the network that we are on shout out to Maximum Fun. And one of things we got earlier on in the show is some of the black people who listen to our podcast would hear us on NPR or hear us elsewhere, and they would accuse us of code switching. And I think and in the course of doing this book, code switching has been a prominent, you know, thing of consideration for us.
00:26:15:04 - 00:27:10:02
TRE'VELL: We even have an essay in the book in which we, like, tease out, you know, the pros and the cons, if you will, right. Of code switching. And so for me, you know. I, I think I had just, it's so hard to sometimes have to think of a different way of saying the thing that I know already how to say, but like feeling like a person won't understand me. So then I have to find these SAT words, right? To, to make it make sense for them when when I really could say a phrase or make a look that that to me conveys what I'm saying, but not might not be received as such by the other person. And I think for me, ultimately I started saying that like it takes too much work for me to like turn off the Charleston, South Carolina in me.
00:27:10:07 - 00:27:45:12
TRE'VELL: It takes too much work to try to turn off the queer in trans, you know, lingo, right? That like pumps through my veins. And so, guess what? I'm going to use it in my reporting. I'm going to use it in the meetings with the CEO because the way I speak is valid and it is legitimate. And I should not have to change. We should not have to change how we show up in a space in order to be understood, that space should change and do what it needs to do to understand us.
00:27:46:20 - 00:27:56:20
TRE'VELL: And, you know, it is, it has been a difficult journey taking that stance, to be clear, Right? I've been.
00:27:56:22 - 00:27:58:02
FANSHEN: It doesn't make it easy, right.
00:27:58:11 - 00:28:44:28
TRE'VELL: Yes, I've been in plenty of - I remember when I was at the L.A. Times, I, there were often instances in which leadership would try to let's let's say, tell me how I was supposed to show up. Like, tell me how like, you know, oh, this isn't this isn't how you should be representing the L.A. Times, quote-unquote, you know, or I would be tweeting in the ways that I tweet and they would feel a way about the type of language that I would use. And then I realized, oh, yeah, just don't get it. Like you think I'm being offensive or you think that I'm not a proper representation of this institution because you don't know how, one you don't know how black people talk. And two, you don't know how black people talk on the Internet. And so, like, there was a lot of that push and pull.
00:28:45:27 - 00:28:56:29
FANSHEN: I'm like, they should just say thank you because you are making their work more accessible to a broader range of people. Like, I just wish you could have been like, well, you're welcome.
00:28:57:19 - 00:29:36:08
TRE'VELL: You know, I was very, by the time I left the L.A. Times, I was very secure in what I brought to that newsroom. And that, you know, ultimately prompted one of the reasons why I left. Right. But it can be hard sometimes, right, to siphon through or decipher, I should say, the the good from the bad in terms of the types of feedback that we sometimes get in these spaces. I always say when I'm talking to young people because I carry myself like I am somebody's auntie FYI. But it's, it's the turban that I have on as we record this right?
00:29:37:07 - 00:29:38:05
FANSHEN: I love it. Yes, yes.
00:29:38:07 - 00:30:51:12
TRE'VELL: But I always tell young people in particular that like, you know, be a bad bitch, but be open to critique is as a repetitive thing that I say because we need to move and go into these spaces as if we are bad bitches. Because that is for me at least, that's been an armor, right? Every day I walk out my door, I know that I'm going to have to deal with something because I am a black trans person in this world that was not built with me in mind. Right. And when it comes to the entertainment industry, that is another, you know, set of institutions that weren't built with many of us in mind, even though our contributions are the are the lifeblood, right. Of this industry in so many ways as queer people, as transpeople, as black folks, as women, etc.. Right. We are the ones who keep this industry running in the ways that mean that that matter the most. And so I arm myself, with this attitude, with this security, with this confidence. Right. But I also know I like I'm the baddest in the room. I'm the baddest bitch in the room. I promise you. That's the energy I walk in with. But I also know that a bad bitch can always learn something from someone else.
00:30:52:11 - 00:31:25:06
TRE'VELL: You know, it's so be a bad bitch, but be open to critique because we can always learn something. We can always improve, we can always be more caring, we can always be more exacting in our approach. We can, we can always, you know, grow and improve. Sometimes we can't get past that feedback loop or we can't get past the negative parts, I should say, of of that of that feedback, because we don't we don't have ourself together, right? We don't know our worth. We don't know, you know, what we should be charging.
00:31:25:08 - 00:32:22:02
TRE'VELL: We don't know right. What the path is of how to accomplish something. And so when that feedback comes, it knocks us off our path. But with the confidence, at least for me, this has worked for me by getting secure in and in the uniqueness of the vision of of how I move and operate in the world lets me know that no matter the feedback that I'm getting, like there's a resolve within myself. That I know without any doubt, that my imagination. The world that I am creating and building in my head and then bringing to this realm to make it a reality. It is not only possible, but it is also destined. And so be a bad bitch, but be open to critique.
00:32:28:22 - 00:32:41:08
FANSHEN: Hi, it's Fanshen and you're listening to Sista Brunch. We'll be right back. And during this really quick music break, go ahead and follow us on Twitter if you're not already. We're at Sista Brunch and on Instagram at Sista Brunch podcast.
00:32:46:24 - 00:32:50:25
TRE'VELL: Hey, y'all. I'm Tre'vell Anderson, and you're listening to Sista Brunch Podcast.
00:32:52:13 - 00:33:13:26
FANSHEN: You really reflect the most confidence when you can hear a critique grow from it and not take it personally cause it's the, it's taking it personally where in reality you weren't so confident. You know what I'm saying? Cause like, if you're, if you are a bad bitch and you're confident in that, none of that comes as personal, even when the person meant it that way.
00:33:13:28 - 00:33:14:19
TRE'VELL: Absolutely.
00:33:14:21 - 00:33:20:09
FANSHEN: Like you could still dig in and be like, okay, but I know what the gem is in there, right?
00:33:20:11 - 00:33:20:26
TRE'VELL: It's, what is the saying?
00:33:20:28 - 00:33:23:22
FANSHEN: Like, I know what the gem is, what you're trying to tell me to help me grow.
00:33:23:26 - 00:33:38:16
TRE'VELL: What is the saying that they say, like, eat the meat but leave the bone, right? Like, not enough of us are eating the meat and leaving the bone. So many of us. Right. It's so easy to take the bone with you. It's so easy to right, you know?
00:33:40:05 - 00:33:41:06
FANSHEN: Let me grab this. Let me take this, right.
00:33:41:08 - 00:33:49:06
TRE'VELL: And that's because these systems and institutions that we are going into, again, weren't built with us in mind. They were built on our backs. And they were built off of our sweat equity.
00:33:49:08 - 00:33:52:00
FANSHEN: They want us, they want us to take it personally.
00:33:52:02 - 00:33:54:14
TRE'VELL: Absolutely they do, because.
00:33:54:16 - 00:33:55:09
FANSHEN: But we don't need to.
00:33:55:17 - 00:34:26:03
TRE'VELL: We don't and we can't. And I want to be clear that when I'm saying, like, don't take things personally. I'm not talking about, you know, the isms and the obias of the world. Right. The racism, anti-blackness, the transphobia, the homophobia. Like, that shit is definitely personal. What I'm trying to say is that there is no one here in this world that can tell me that the visions that I have for myself are not possible.
00:34:26:05 - 00:35:35:15
TRE'VELL: There is no one. Right. But you can tell me. What you can tell me. Is that the way that I thought about going to do that, to make that vision come to life is not yet a reality. You can tell me that I have a suggestion over here of how else you can go about making that vision a reality. But you can't tell me that the truth of the vision that I have for not only how I can show up in the world and be my fully unfolded self, in the words of author Akwaeke Emezi, you can't tell me how that how that looks because I always say that the black trans imagination is the most powerful imagination that we have out here in this world. And if we allow ourselves as a society to be inspired by and take our cues from black trans folks who like what, we literally have made ourselves, right? Out of the depths of our imaginations. You can't tell me that my imagination one is ineffective or improbable or unlikely or not coming to pass, because here I am.
00:35:36:03 - 00:35:36:18
FANSHEN: Whew.
00:35:36:20 - 00:35:41:13
TRE'VELL: Because here I am. Now I feel like I'm having an Iyanla moment. But you know.
00:35:43:23 - 00:35:54:28
FANSHEN: I am. I'm like, I'm at church. I'm like, y'all, I have chills. You are such a gift. You are such a gift.
00:35:55:16 - 00:36:30:09
TRE'VELL: But, you know, for so many of us, the fact that we exist is all the proof we need, right? It really is. And and I refuse to to to move through the world thinking that my existence is is a mistake, or that it is not for a reason. Right? That it is not. It is not proof of concept, Right? I am the proof of concept, right. I don't need to I don't need to show you that I have an audience for my work and how I move through space. I am the audience.
00:36:30:11 - 00:36:31:18
FANSHEN: You are the proof.
00:36:31:28 - 00:36:38:17
TRE'VELL: I am the proof of concept like, and we all are our very own proofs of concept.
00:36:39:04 - 00:37:08:18
FANSHEN: Oh, Lord, I. Because I know I have to let you go soon. And I don't. I want. I want to. I have a pillow and a sleeping bag at my house because you just can't be my best friend for the rest of our lives. This is. Oh, I want to make sure I get two questions, and then we're going to make sure everybody knows where to follow you, how to get the books and when. And, so first question we always like to get in. And if you're uncomfortable, that's feel free as well. But we do like to talk about salary ranges.
00:37:08:20 - 00:37:09:07
TRE'VELL: Oh, yes.
00:37:09:15 - 00:37:20:02
FANSHEN: Because we want our listeners to know, like, what? What is it like to sustain yourself, especially, I mean, L.A. Times, etc., when you have a permanent job, but then also now that you're doing what you're doing?
00:37:20:04 - 00:38:00:17
TRE'VELL: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I love talking about money. I wish people would ask more about it. We need to because that's how you demystify, right? So much about our industries. And I say industries plural, because it's literally in every single industry, no matter where you work. Right. On average, black folks, brown folks, women, queer people, etc., are making significantly less than our white and white male counterparts, even more so. And so, you know, the thing about the money is it's it's I tell people also one of the reasons why I say getting laid off was like the best thing to happen to me is because I'm making the most money than I've ever made in my life.
00:38:01:10 - 00:38:08:13
TRE'VELL: And I couldn't I can't imagine, I couldn't imagine making the money that I'm making right now, like.
00:38:09:22 - 00:38:10:15
FANSHEN: Yes. Yes.
00:38:10:20 - 00:38:13:22
TRE'VELL: But even more so, my mom couldn't imagine.
00:38:14:24 - 00:38:16:11
FANSHEN: Right. Right.
00:38:16:13 - 00:38:46:28
TRE'VELL: My grandmother couldn't imagine. Right. And here I am. And so, you know, I. I think on on the, like, freelance journalism side of things, I'll say that I know that, like, unfortunately, the ecosystem is trash. And, you know, they got people out here working and and writing for, you know, $50 a pop for articles. They've got people writing for $200 a pop for articles for deeply reported in research, like interview-based like stuff. It's it's fucking absurd.
00:38:47:08 - 00:39:16:22
TRE'VELL: I for me, this is how I set my rates. I don't write for less than $500. And if I'm writing something for $500, it's because I really believe in the story. It's a person who I want to uplift or an entity that I want to shine some light on, or it's a a publication that I want to have you know, my name in. Right. To be quite honest. But I don't I don't do it often. I'm a let you know right now, I don't do it often because we got bills to pay.
00:39:17:11 - 00:39:23:03
FANSHEN: So just reach out and be like, would you please. Yeah. You're discerning about that even.
00:39:23:15 - 00:39:41:01
TRE'VELL: And then, you know, the rest of them, I'd say my, my books have been the reason why the book advances have been the reason why I'm making the money that I'm making for clarity sake, Right. For some reason, I happen to have, you know, two deals signed within months of each other.
00:39:41:09 - 00:39:52:09
FANSHEN: Let's, let's just remove that for some reason. I mean, it's very clear from what reason, you are in a position to have of two or more book deals at once. But yes.
00:39:52:18 - 00:40:02:25
TRE'VELL: You know and super blessed. Super blessed and super grateful. We got six-figure deals for both. I got a six-figure deal for my book. Disney is the parent company, Andscape books is the imprint, which is like if you're familiar with the-
00:40:02:27 - 00:40:03:15
FANSHEN: I didn't know it was Andscape.
00:40:03:17 - 00:40:04:08
TRE'VELL: Yeah, so.
00:40:04:10 - 00:40:06:15
FANSHEN: The Undefeated.
00:40:06:17 - 00:40:07:02
TRE'VELL: Yeah, formally The Undefeated
00:40:07:04 - 00:40:09:17
FANSHEN: And now Kevin Merida is now at L.A. Times. Yeah. Okay.
00:40:09:21 - 00:40:23:26
TRE'VELL: Which so interesting Kevin Merida bought my book and then a week later announced he was going to the L.A. Times. And so it was like one of the last things that he did before he left. Shout out to him and so
00:40:23:28 - 00:40:25:09
FANSHEN: Shout out to Kevin Merida.
00:40:25:11 - 00:41:34:15
TRE'VELL: We love to see it. Right? And so my book is coming out on the imprint that is attached to an Andscape formerly known as The Undefeated, and then the the joint book. We, we got a six figure deal. It was a, I want to say eight house auction, and I want to shout out my agent, who is also Jared's agent, so she also represented the joint book as well, Patrice Caldwell, Black Queer Woman, who's also an author herself, who she does what needs to be done. I'm totally open to to sharing the exact numbers. Just DM me, I'll let you know. I don't care. And then beyond that, you know, it's it's just one of the bits of advice that I would suggest I would give to people is that I did not know how much money I was leaving on the table when I came into this industry because no one talks about money. And I'll specifically talk from the standpoint of both a freelance journalist and like, you know, a person who moderates Q&A's and, you know, all of those types of things. People are getting paid thousands of dollars for these 30-minute Q&A's after these movie screenings that you all go to. But not everyone is getting the thousands of dollars.
00:41:34:26 - 00:41:35:11
FANSHEN: Right.
00:41:35:19 - 00:41:46:00
TRE'VELL: When I was working at the L.A. Times, I wasn't making any money for all of the Q&A's that I was doing. One mainly because the L.A. Times wouldn't let us right. That was against their policy.
00:41:46:02 - 00:41:51:02
FANSHEN: Oh, okay. So that was part of your, that was built into your salary?
00:41:51:07 - 00:41:51:22
TRE'VELL: No.
00:41:51:24 - 00:41:53:17
FANSHEN: For your job, is for you to do those things?
00:41:53:25 - 00:42:54:17
TRE'VELL: No, because I wasn't doing them through the L.A. Times. I was doing, it was like, you know, a studio would hit me up directly and ask me to do something for their movie. But the reason why they said we couldn't accept compensation was they wanted to remove what they saw as the potential for a conflict of interest. If I had written about a movie or reviewed a movie that is also paying me to moderate their Q&A, which I get I disagree with. But I get. But when I became a freelancer, when when I eventually became a freelancer and left the L.A. Times. I just accepted what people offered me, which was like $500. And then I began learning. Oh, you paid me $500 to do the Q&A for the same movie that you paid such and such. I'll be nice and not say names that you paid such and such $3,000 for. And so everything runs the gamut. I always say as a freelancer, you need to be moving your your rate up. Move it up until somebody says no.
00:42:54:27 - 00:43:02:22
FANSHEN: Set that baseline high. Higher than you think. Like, whatever you, the first thing that comes in your head. Add on to that.
00:43:02:24 - 00:43:03:23
TRE'VELL: Uncomfortable, an uncomforable number.
00:43:03:25 - 00:43:08:24
FANSHEN: Add a zero or two.
00:43:08:26 - 00:43:09:11
TRE'VELL: Yes, an uncomforable number.
00:43:09:13 - 00:43:09:28
FANSHEN: Yes, an uncomfortable number.
00:43:10:00 - 00:43:10:15
TRE'VELL: Like, it needs to.
00:43:10:17 - 00:43:22:06
FANSHEN: Because you start there and then that vets you like they are vetting you by the number you give them. Right. Like that actually is planting a seed in their mind of your worth, the number that you actually give them.
00:43:22:14 - 00:43:26:22
TRE'VELL: Because the worst they can say is what, no? The worst they can say is we ain't got it. Okay fine.
00:43:26:24 - 00:43:33:18
FANSHEN: And if you really want to do it, you can say, well, I'll do you a favor this time and do it for this.
00:43:33:20 - 00:43:36:28
TRE'VELL: But you need to know, exactly. But you need to know
00:43:37:00 - 00:43:37:20
FANSHEN: This is my rate.
00:43:37:22 - 00:43:53:07
TRE'VELL: That this is the rate, and I'm doing you a favor for this one project because I'm going to knock it out the park because that's what I do. Right? So you're gonna come back. I'm not worried about you coming back, but you need to know that when you come back, have the budget that requires
00:43:53:09 - 00:43:53:26
FANSHEN: That's my rate.
00:43:53:28 - 00:43:56:10
TRE'VELL: My attendance, you know? And so I tell people.
00:43:56:12 - 00:43:56:27
FANSHEN: I love it.
00:43:57:04 - 00:44:08:23
TRE'VELL: Move. Move your rate up as much as much until somebody tells you no. Then you can negotiate. You can always negotiate. If you do not negotiate your rate. You have lost the negotiation.
00:44:08:26 - 00:44:20:26
FANSHEN: There you go. Tre'vell. Where can we purchase your books or get on the waitlist to purchase your books? Tell us where to follow you, on FANTI and your morning show. Tell us all the places we can find you and support you.
00:44:20:29 - 00:44:57:16
TRE'VELL: So in the very place where you're listening to this podcast here OK go on, scroll over. Search Fanti, search What a day. That's how you can get the podcasts right there. Right. Real simple, real easy. You can follow me on Instagram at rayzhon you can. I mean, who knows where Twitter is by the time you all are listening to this. So I'm at Tre'vell Anderson, there. So, you know, if I'm still there, you could find me there. But as always, for the books and anything else, TrevellAnderson.com is the best place where you can always find me, no matter what happens in the apocalypse. Check me out there.
00:44:58:05 - 00:45:16:21
FANSHEN: Okay, last question. So, you mentioned you, one of the things you wanted to be was a chef. So I think it's going to be a fun question for you. So you and young Tre'vell are having brunch together and you're preparing the brunch for you, and let's say high school Tre'vell.
00:45:16:23 - 00:45:17:08
TRE'VELL: Okay.
00:45:18:07 - 00:45:29:03
FANSHEN: What are you serving to high school Tre'vell? Like, what do you make, what do you serve, what are you drinking? What is high school Tre'vell drinking? And then what do you say to high school Tre'vell over brunch?
00:45:29:05 - 00:45:40:27
TRE'VELL: Okay. Oh, because you know, sista brunch. Okay. I was going to I was going to try to push back. I was going to try to be like, could it be dinner? But, you know. I would stick with brunch.
00:45:40:29 - 00:45:54:19
FANSHEN: It it, it can be. Yeah. Yes. Hence. Hence the brunch. But it could be. It could absolutely be dinner. You can be like high school Tre'vell, I can't meet you for brunch, but I can meet you for dinner, and I make a better dinner than a brunch, so that's fine.
00:45:55:15 - 00:46:14:08
TRE'VELL: You know, I was just. You know, because I'm like. I'm like, what? What is the meal? What is food that like? That makes me the most comfortable and most secure. And that's what I would want to serve to my younger self. And it's it's not something that I would advise for brunch. But, you know, live your life. It's your body. Do what you want.
00:46:14:17 - 00:46:21:21
FANSHEN: Exactly. No, no boxes. Look, we can have that for brunch. It's fine.
00:46:21:23 - 00:46:54:22
TRE'VELL: It's so, my favorite meal of all time. It's this dish called okra soup. It's a rather simple dish, but it grows out of various West African traditions. Ultimately, like I said, I grew up in Charleston, South Carolina. Shout out to the Gullah Geechee folks over there. And so it's called okra soup. It's this tomato-based kind of stew with okra and tomatoes and and corn. And, you know, I. I'm black and southern and I like, you know, meat.
00:46:54:29 - 00:47:26:05
TRE'VELL: And so it's got neck bone in it. You could have some pig tail. You could throw some scrimp. You know, if you want to get that that, you know, coastal vibes going on. But it's served with rice and it's just such a hearty filling type of thing that like, it reminds me of my grandmother. Like, I mean, the recipe I use today, you know, has a little extra razzle dazzle in it, but it builds off of my grandmother's core recipe. There'll be some candied yams on the side, baked mac and cheese, of course.
00:47:26:14 - 00:47:38:21
TRE'VELL: And. And that's it. And we're drinking some some sweet, you know, diabetic tea. Okay. Like you. Like you hold, you hold the glass up to the light and you can see the sugar particles floating through it.
00:47:40:25 - 00:47:47:25
FANSHEN: And the sugar just floating down. I love it. And what do you tell what do you tell young Tre'Vell?
00:47:48:17 - 00:48:31:14
TRE'VELL: I would tell young Tre'vell that you always knew who you were and that the world may not always be the proper container for it, but, there are other worlds that can be created. And I would tell my younger self that. Your imagination is your secret weapon. Lean into it. Cultivate it. Like, what would I be? What would we all be if our imaginations as younger people weren't constrained? Weren't confined? Weren't you now? Stop crying, man up.
00:48:31:16 - 00:49:01:06
TRE'VELL: Right. Like. Like you. You can't play with this type of toy because you're a boy or your girl. You can't do this thing because you're a boy. Or you are. What would we... who would we all be if our imaginations were were supported? We're uplifted. We're encouraged. And so I would tell my younger self to to lean into your imagination. It will be it will be your ticket to the future.
00:49:01:23 - 00:49:08:01
FANSHEN: Thank you so much. Tre'vell Anderson. We're beyond honored to have you on Sista Branch. Thank you.
00:49:08:03 - 00:49:09:23
TRE'VELL: Thanks for having me. This was fun.
00:49:18:20 - 00:49:49:25
FANSHEN: Thank you to our Sista Brunch family, our listeners, our friends, our family. Thank you for listening to Sista Brunch to the podcast that brings you the stories of black women and gender-expansive people, breaking barriers and bringing joy to entertainment and media. This is our fourth season of Sista Brunch, You all. You can read the transcript of this show. Listen to all our previous episodes at SistaBrunch.com. As always, we thank you so much for your support and please remember to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't done that already.
00:49:50:04 - 00:50:20:27
FANSHEN: We would also really appreciate it if you leave us a review. Share this podcast with your friends and family, colleagues, etc.. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at Sista Brunch Podcast and you can listen to Sista Brunch on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Sista brunch is brought to you by TruJoLo Productions. Our senior producer is Sonata Lee Narcisse. Our co-producer is Brittany Turner. Our executive producers are Christabel Nsiah-Buadi and Anya Adams.
00:50:21:07 - 00:50:37:04
FANSHEN: Our associate producers are Farida Abdul-Wahab and Mimi Slater. We acknowledge that the land we record our podcast on is the original land of the Tongva and the Chumash people. until next time, sisters and siblings. We will see you soon. Bye bye.