Michelle Crenshaw: Letting the Work Speak for Itself
Episode Description:
Michelle Crenshaw is a cinematographer, camera operator and director of photography with more than 30 years of experience in the industry and over 60 IMDB credits to her name. She has worked on films such as The Watermelon Woman and Home Alone. Most recently she worked as the camera operator for Netflix’s HANNAH GADSBY: DOUGLAS and CBS’s BOB HEARTS ABISHOLA. In this episode, Michelle talks to Fanshen and Anya about her long career in entertainment, the iconic films she’s worked on and the key to longevity in the film industry.
TRANSCRIPT:
Fanshen Cox (00:12):
Welcome back to Sista Brunch with me, Fanshen Cox.
Anya Adams (00:16):
And me Anya Adams.
Fanshen Cox (00:18):
The fabulous Anya Adams. Now, what is this? Where are we? What are we doing here, Sista Brunch. This is Sista Brunch, and it's a podcast about black women and non-binary folks striving and thriving in media, entertainment and the arts. And we cannot wait to share more stories with you over the next few weeks.
Anya Adams (00:37):
Today's guest is a cinematographer and camera operator. It's the fabulous Michelle Crenshaw and just a little history about Michelle. She has worked on films, such as the iconic, The Watermelon Woman, and also the iconic Home Alone. Amazing, two different, very different movies. Raised into Detroit, she graduated from Columbia College, Chicago, where she took a film class and was immediately hooked. With over 30 years, 30 years in the industry. Okay. She has over 60 IMDb credits. That's the internet movie database folks, for those of you that don't know, 60 over 60 and most recently she's worked as the camera operator for Netflix's Hannah Gatsby: Douglas, and CBS's Bob Hearts Abishola. I want to talk to you about that later. The other thing we want to talk about Michelle is that she was appointed to the city of Los Angeles's Workforce Development Board in 2019. She's an adjunct faculty member at USC Cinematic Arts Program and was recently reelected to the national executive board of the international cinematographers Guild (IATSE Local 600). So Michelle, she don't slow down, but she's stopping by Sista Brunch to holla with us.
Fanshen Cox (02:00):
To hang out with us. Yes, Michelle. We are so incredibly honored and proud to have you on this show. Thank you for being here.
Michelle Crenshaw (02:09):
Thank you for asking.
Fanshen Cox (02:09):
Yeah. We have so many questions, especially because the genres that you've worked in, the variety of storytelling, the onus of the iconic stories. We can't wait to hear and dig in more on those, but we'd love to start off by asking you a little bit about your journey, because we want to inspire our listeners around how to get started. So take us back as far as you would like to go and let us know how you got-
Anya Adams (02:36):
Take us back past those 60 IMDb credits.
Fanshen Cox (02:39):
Yes.
Anya Adams (02:41):
One.
Fanshen Cox (02:42):
That first IMDb credit. Yeah. Tell us about it. How'd you get it?
Anya Adams (02:46):
How'd you get there?
Michelle Crenshaw (02:47):
Well, it's funny because I never knew about IMDb. It came out what, like in the early '90s or something?
Fanshen Cox (02:55):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (02:55):
It was actually another friend of mine who was trying to do a lot of producing work. She's the one that told me about it. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a IMDb and it was like, oh my gosh, look at this. Wow. Okay. Anyway. For the longest, I didn't even bother about it because a lot of the producers put that information on. Now, if you want to, you can try to dig in deeper. To be honest with you, I could probably put on about 30 more credits that are not there.
Anya Adams (03:30):
Damn.
Fanshen Cox (03:30):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Michelle Crenshaw (03:32):
You know what it is, I'm a Sister, I'm a black woman and a lot of people don't need to know how much you do because then they bug you.
Anya Adams (03:40):
That is interesting.
Michelle Crenshaw (03:43):
I'm kind of like trying to be on the down-low sometimes because I'm almost out there making my moves.
Fanshen Cox (03:48):
I love it. That's an inspiration right there. When you don't want to be found, you know you made it, right? Like the rest is out here. Who do you give us a job. Michelle's like, don't call me.
Michelle Crenshaw (03:59):
No, no, no, no. You know, part of that is that I always say, especially to African American black and brown women, if I see them out here in the field, especially in a technical capacity, I say, listen, give me a call if you have any thoughts or questions. If I can answer, I'll be happy to, or I'll lead you somewhere else where someone can answer your question, but it's amazing how people don't really reach out.
Anya Adams (04:32):
Mm-mm (negative).
Fanshen Cox (04:33):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (04:34):
As much as they should, for whatever reasons. But anyway, enough of that, let me go back in to my childhood. First of all-
Fanshen Cox (04:42):
You shouldn't have said that because I'll be at your door tomorrow.
Anya Adams (04:45):
[inaudible 00:04:45]
Michelle Crenshaw (04:46):
No, no, no. No don't need to knock at my door. You can email. You can email or call me.
Anya Adams (04:49):
[inaudible 00:04:49] to come to my house. Okay. But seriously, where do you live?
Michelle Crenshaw (04:57):
No, I'm just kidding.
Anya Adams (04:59):
[inaudible 00:04:59] tell us about your childhood Michelle.
Fanshen Cox (05:02):
Yes.
Michelle Crenshaw (05:02):
One thing I could say is I grew up in the Midwest, Detroit, Michigan to be exact, was very much raised in a labor household. Very much a working class family. My father was at the time he was a educational director of the Rouge plant, local 600 because Detroit is still the motor capital of the world. At least as far as business is concerned. My mother was a secretary and that's how they met based on second marriage, out popped me. So I like to tell people that I was a love child. I have older brothers. I have older brothers and sisters, a lot older. I had a niece at the age of four. So I have actually like first generation nieces and nephews that we might be like four years apart in age. So they're like my brothers and sisters at this point, which is a beautiful thing.
Michelle Crenshaw (06:00):
But I was always that kind of like nomadic child that used to wander around to see what was on the other side of the road. I was also very involved in the arts and somewhere around 16, I picked up my first still camera and for some reason liked EDC of taking photographs. An observation of just people and things and abstractions, whatever that was. So from there, after I graduated from high school, I wasn't too sure what my education... I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. It's just amazing how the universe will just guide you from one thing to the next. I saw this ad in the photography magazine about Ray-Vogue School of Design. It was in Chicago and it was a two-year program for large format photography. I started dabbing into 4 by 5 and 8 by 10, but not enough.
Anya Adams (07:07):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Michelle Crenshaw (07:07):
So I said, "Ooh, let me go here". So I went to Chicago, and of course, being from Detroit was a decent city at the time, then coming to Chicago was like, wow, okay, right in-
Anya Adams (07:19):
But yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (07:19):
... the heart of Michigan Avenue where everything was happening. So I took a couple classes in dark room and developing. For some reason I was thinking more at the time commercial photography. Now we're talking about in the early '80s. If you think seeing someone like me now is odd, in the '80s, it was like non-existent. I was so naive because I always was integrated, went to Catholic high schools, ended up graduating from Cass Tech High was a school of integration. So being around white people didn't scare me. I didn't care. I was just doing my thing.
Anya Adams (08:01):
Right.
Michelle Crenshaw (08:01):
You know?
Anya Adams (08:01):
Right.
Michelle Crenshaw (08:03):
So here I am in the early '80s and I wasn't quite satisfied with the school because they weren't giving me enough for me to learn on my own. They were telling me things, but they weren't letting me discover. Someone told me about Columbia College. They have a huge photo department and they had a film department. So I decided to take one class film making 101 which had nothing but Bolex's and started to learn about-
Anya Adams (08:36):
Wow.
Michelle Crenshaw (08:37):
... not only taking images, but story structure and I was hooked. By the way I went to college later in life. So I've always been a working woman. I've been working since I was 17 years old, but I decided to go to college later in life. So here I was 21. Then I knew this is what I want to do. I can use the elements of art. I can use the elements of composition. I can use the elements of shadow, light, movement-
Anya Adams (09:08):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (09:09):
... telling a story. I was hooked. I just lived and breathed there for about three years working in the film cage, shooting a lot of student projects. Still being very naive at the time as far as the real world. You have your college world, which is very utilitarian and very-
Anya Adams (09:31):
Aspirational.
Michelle Crenshaw (09:32):
... structured and aspirational. You get into your little cliques.
Anya Adams (09:35):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Michelle Crenshaw (09:36):
It was like this one guy, he wanted to be a director. I knew I wanted to be a cinematographer. So we used to work on each other's projects all the time. Then after that, it's like, I was also a intern at the school. So I was a TA, teacher's assistant. Very technical, wasn't scared of the equipment.
Michelle Crenshaw (09:57):
One thing led to another, then I graduated and then it was like, okay, now what I'm going to do? At the time it was more like in the mid '80s, there were two filmmakers that really influenced me just to be in this world of cinema. It was Spike Lee and Euzhan Palcy, because Spike Lee...
Anya Adams (10:19):
Oh yes.
Michelle Crenshaw (10:20):
It was just during that time when she's got to have it. Then also Bed-Stuy Barbershop from NYU.
Anya Adams (10:27):
Yep.
Michelle Crenshaw (10:28):
Then when I saw Sugar Cane Alley, which is Euzhan Palcy's debut film, it was like, yeah, okay. Black people can make films.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. Stay tuned for more of our conversation with the inspiring and powerful and amazing guest, cinematographer and camera operator, Michelle Crenshaw. And we are back. Check out more of this conversation on thriving behind the scenes with Michelle Crenshaw.
Fanshen Cox (11:18):
What was your first big break? Watermelon Woman I'm assuming. Or was there something before that, that really propelled you and started you having the relationships that would lead to everything you've done since then?
Michelle Crenshaw (11:32):
Well, it was a combination of things because even when I was in film school about ready to leave, there was a social group of women that would shoot and work on each other's projects. This guy named Floyd Webb, he started this film festival called Blacklight Film Festival back in the day. I was also part of a film festival organization in Chicago called Women in Director's Chair. At that time it was like the first international film festival for women directors or producers or people who were instrumental in making the project. It was very exciting because it was very collaborative, more of a community. Now you didn't necessarily make a lot of money, but still you were out there doing your stories. There was a huge network from there.
Michelle Crenshaw (12:31):
Then one of my instructors, [Dave Morin 00:12:35] I was his TA. At the time Chicago was starting to boom, as far as filmmaking. That's where Andy Davis and John Hughes and all these features when they started leaving New York or California, for whatever reasons, they were coming into Chicago. I missed the Blues Brothers days, but I came after them. My instructor, because he knew I was technically inclined... I was the It-girl. It was quite clear I had it, what it took to manage cameras and lenses and filters and batteries and whatnot. So the union was opening up in Chicago. Basically they needed black brown and ethnic minorities and women because there weren't any.
Anya Adams (13:34):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (13:35):
Usually when I tell my students and when I talk about my history, you have to think about history of America. I mean, right now we have the DEI going on in this country. Well, back in the '80s they were still talking about the same thing. So they would let a few people in and once those few people in, that's when the door closes.
Fanshen Cox (14:01):
Mm-hmm (affirmative) yeah.
Anya Adams (14:03):
Right.
Michelle Crenshaw (14:03):
But like mom says, preparation and opportunity meet, that's what luck is all about. So I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I developed enough skills where people were interested in allowing me in because filmmaking industry is still a big industry of nepotism, which I have nothing against nepotism at all, but you have to really want it and sacrifice network and know who that's going to embrace you for who you are as an individual and allow you to grow.
Fanshen Cox (14:42):
Mm-hmm (affirmative) Too often, how it happens in Hollywood is somebody who has never done anything. Somebody meaning a white male, right. Who has done very little or has very little experience, didn't go to school, because of nepotism, they get hired versus someone like you, where you talk about it being luck in the sense of that timing and the zeitgeist, but at the same time you were prepared and you had something special. This is different, even once you started to have those relationships.
Michelle Crenshaw (15:15):
Yes. Yes.
Anya Adams (15:17):
Can you tell us a little bit about the Watermelon Woman, because I feel like this movie has had kind of a resurgence in the last years. It's become this iconic film that people refer to, but like I know when you made it, it probably was very hard.
Michelle Crenshaw (15:34):
Well, making the film wasn't so hard because it was that grassroots Indy way of making films. Now, how I met Cheryl Dunye is because of my activism and working on Women in Director's Chair, because I was also at one point I became a vice president working with [Nalani McClendon 00:15:57] when she was president at the time of Women in Director's Chair. That's how I met Cheryl because we had one of her experimental films in the film festival. She contacted me somewhere in the early '90s saying girl, when she got her NEA money that she wanted to shoot this film with. I was sure, okay. Now it took several years from that till we actually shot. But by then I was working all the time as a camera assistant. So I could afford to go to Philly and hang out for a month or so and help her do Watermelon Woman.
Michelle Crenshaw (16:39):
It was exciting. It was fun. I had a small crew, which was good, but 20 years later it just resurged. It was ahead of its time. That's what it was.
Anya Adams (16:51):
Yeah, 100%.
Michelle Crenshaw (16:53):
Socially, the message that it was trying to deal with... So it's just now it's just caught up.
Anya Adams (17:01):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (17:01):
Cheryl Dunye, she's great at promoting herself. I'm the type of person, especially as a cinematographer, I don't need to be out in front. I'm the VP. I'm the one that's going to support in being the background, making sure things are moving. I think that's how a lot of director of photographers and cinematographers are. We're not the director, we're facilitating with the director to carry on a vision, to tell a story. It doesn't matter what genre it is. Whether it is a documentary, a music video, television, features. You're there to help facilitate with that in mind using the tools and the palette of your gear and your light and direction, composition, framing.
Fanshen Cox (18:06):
This is just such a beautiful conversation. Let me stop and say that. This is I feel blessed right now. This is beautiful and it's so true, right, that DPs, a lot of crew they don't need to be out in front or visible, but you Michelle are a gem. The fact that still there are so few black women DPs still, we need to shout your name from the rooftops because we need black women and black girls to know that this is something they can do.
Anya Adams (18:40):
I mean, not to [inaudible 00:18:41] our own horn, but we are pushing you out front in this podcast. So whether you give us your home address or not, people going to know your name.
Fanshen Cox (18:48):
Yeah, we're going to be in touch.
Michelle Crenshaw (18:53):
Well, that's great. Let me tell you something. This is how it really came down. Let's go back to Watermelon Woman. So I've known Cheryl Dunye ever since then and she's had her struggles. Thanks to Ava DuVernay, she's opened up the door for literally 99% of the black female directors that are out here doing stuff now, especially for television, as well as features. My shout out to Ava DuVernay, which I haven't had the opportunity to work with her yet, maybe someday. But with Cheryl Dunye we've maintained a friendship and there were some other things that she wanted me to do. But I got to point in my career that I couldn't work for free because my time is valuable. I'm a older woman. I have life. I have family. My time commitment to myself has changed. Right? So at one point I contacted Cheryl and I said, "You know girl", especially happened during the pandemic.
Michelle Crenshaw (19:53):
I said, "You know, I'm ready to slay here". Okay. I'm tired of being quiet. I work with a lot of people. I know as much, if not more, because I've also went up the ranks, working in cameras. So I started as an intern. I was a loader. Then I became a second assistant. Then I became a focus puller. Then I became an operator. That's when you met me Anya, I was an operator and I'm still an operator, but believe me, my whole career, I wanted to be a cinematographer. But in the mid '80s, there were barely any women let known someone. I'm a real sister. I'm a black woman with natural hair. They weren't ready for me.
Fanshen Cox (20:35):
Yes, she is.
Michelle Crenshaw (20:37):
That's all it is. White men do have a hard time listening to women. Period. Let alone a sister, neither here and nor there. So I told Cheryl Dunye, I was ready to slay and out of the blue, like within a week or two, she calls, "Girl, get ready". Just like that. I go, "What are you talking about"?
Fanshen Cox (20:56):
Yes.
Michelle Crenshaw (20:59):
Anyway, that's what led me to doing a four episodes of Delilah. And because I did four episodes of Delilah, the union contacted me and said, okay, are you going to rerate to DP? Are you going to stay an operator? Well, needless to say, I rerated to DP. So yeah, you all called me now.
Fanshen Cox (21:24):
Yes.
Anya Adams (21:29):
Hi, it's Anya and you're listening to Sista Brunch. We'll be right back. If you haven't already, follow us on Twitter @SistaBrunch, Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast and Facebook at facebook.com/sistabrunchpodcast. Some of our research shows that you actually went back to your hometown to work as an artist-in-residence. Was that from your DP work? That's amazing.
Michelle Crenshaw (22:03):
That was because of my relationship, another sister, Juanita Anderson. She's a professor at Wayne State University that teaches media arts. She's also a producer. She's the one that got me the artist-in-residency to come back to Michigan, which was great.
Anya Adams (22:25):
Wow.
Michelle Crenshaw (22:25):
We're currently working on a documentary called the Hasting Street Blues Project. It's really the history of Blues before Motown and Black Bottom in Detroit. That's a documentary, that's a long-term thing. That's why I was there because I'm also a show face and I'm a social activist too. I'm not just a filmmaker. I'm also a radical, an activist, an artist.
Anya Adams (22:53):
Yes.
Michelle Crenshaw (22:54):
I'm kind of all that.
Fanshen Cox (22:55):
We always like to ask a question and if you're uncomfortable, you don't have to share it. But especially because you talked about one, not working for free anymore, which is important for us to draw that line. And then two, going for operator to DP. Are you comfortable talking about salary ranges or just for our listeners to know what might they be able to make if they were to work as a cinematographer or any of those jobs that you've described moving up to that.
Michelle Crenshaw (23:24):
Well, when you work in the union, there're set prices, which you can go online and find out what the rates are for specific classifications. When you work non-union, it's negotiable and it becomes what you are comfortable with and if you get hired to do the job. Production assistance off the cuff used to be what, 125, 150. I don't know what it is now.
Anya Adams (23:54):
Okay, yeah Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Michelle Crenshaw (23:55):
The same thing for assistance. It could be around 200, maybe 250. I'm thinking in terms of non-union. When you work non-union, you're just paying an hourly rate, whatever you negotiate for that.
Fanshen Cox (24:10):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Michelle Crenshaw (24:11):
Union jobs is eight hours time and a half after 8:00, double time, either 12 or 14. Your hourly rates can be anywhere from 20 something to a hundred something. Let's just say the rates are all over the place. So we can't get that specific. Okay. And it is negotiable. Especially non-union is negotiable depending on what it is, because you're paying for service. I mean, we all participate in giving our service, but also we have years behind that service, that's going to help propel whatever the project is. So don't be so intimidated by working with someone that has a lot of experience, because we're all there to support you and your project.
Fanshen Cox (25:04):
Yes.
Anya Adams (25:04):
Right.
Michelle Crenshaw (25:05):
We're not trying to sell you anything. We're just there to support and might have easier ways to facilitate something that you might have to take a while to figure out as someone who's a technical person.
Anya Adams (25:20):
Do you have any advice for young people of color coming up in this industry in terms of how to navigate with people that as we move through this, there are people that have less experience than you, and also more experience, but just any tips and tricks or thoughts about what it's like to work, especially below the line where you're working with a lot of male energy a lot of times. Do you have any thoughts or words of wisdom there?
Michelle Crenshaw (25:50):
I guess the bottom line is whatever you are offering to a project, regardless of whether you're in hair, makeup, wardrobe, camera, assistant director used to be. I know you're directing now. Just try to be as good as you can with that aspect, because you're not there to do anything else. Okay. You're there to provide a service for that specific thing and try to be very good and efficient at it that other people notice. I got 95% of my work and my jobs have always been through word of mouth. Even if they ask for my resume, 99% of the time, I knew I had the job before they asked for it, because that became a formality.
Fanshen Cox (26:47):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (26:47):
Maybe for legal reasons. So it's what you do in the moment of the position you're in, that will lead you to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing.
Michelle Crenshaw (27:00):
As a camera person... This is one thing I'm working with now with a few young ladies, because I know a lot of people that want to shoot, everyone wants to be a cinematographer, but they don't know the basic foundations of what it takes to get to a place where you can really grow and start asking for decent money to achieve whatever you're trying to achieve. So they start doing a lot of stuff, but not mastering. I guess I'm kind of old school because I grew up in the arts and I used to look at Renaissance paintings and things and saw how light was hitting something, even if it was painted and the direction of shadows. I really wanted to master the art of cinematography. So I enjoyed assisting with some of the most well known male director of photographers out here.
Michelle Crenshaw (28:08):
And I watched what they did. How they worked the set. How they worked with the crew. How the diplomacy of working with other people that you might only work with for a short amount of time and you won't see them again for months. Or if you ever see them again, just focus. I know there's people who are assisting in one job, they're operating on another. They're doing... But you're not really mastering the craft.
Fanshen Cox (28:40):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Michelle Crenshaw (28:41):
That makes the difference of survival. That's why I've been in it for 30 something years. To be honest with you at this point, me trying to do something else is literally impossible because this is all I know. I know the language, I know the culture. Unfortunately, because of pandemic, my biggest fear... Anya you can probably say something about this because of the pandemic it's isolating people more because you won't be able to do the set visits. I won't be able to bring people on necessarily just to observe unless they have another foot in the door that allows them in.
Anya Adams (29:26):
Yes.
Michelle Crenshaw (29:26):
Because with the COVID and the testing, it's actually going to keep more people out. I hate to say it.
Anya Adams (29:33):
No, you're right. Everything is closed down. It's just so much tighter and it's hard. It's really hard.
Michelle Crenshaw (29:41):
The institutions are out there with the streaming platforms, with YouTube, with Instagram, you can get together with your friends and start telling. I mean, Issa Rae. Issa Rae is the example.
Fanshen Cox (29:55):
Yes.
Anya Adams (29:55):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (29:56):
Look what she did.
Fanshen Cox (29:58):
Yes.
Michelle Crenshaw (29:58):
Now she's like the queen a HBO.
Fanshen Cox (30:01):
Yep.
Anya Adams (30:02):
Yeah.
Michelle Crenshaw (30:03):
There's really no excuse other than you not putting in the work.
Fanshen Cox (30:07):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Anya Adams (30:07):
Yeah.
Fanshen Cox (30:10):
I love it. Are there ways that our listeners can support you Michelle, because we love you. How can we support you?
Michelle Crenshaw (30:18):
You can support me for all you women out here. I'm not sure like where you're at in your stage of growth in media making, you can support me by you doing the work and you representing and putting the stories out there. Representation does matter and we need to start telling our own stories and taking control of our own images. That's what you can do for me. Eventually, if you don't see me, you going to see one of my proteges because they are.
Anya Adams (30:53):
I love that.
Michelle Crenshaw (30:55):
That I have trained.
Anya Adams (30:56):
Professional. Oh.
Fanshen Cox (30:58):
Love it.
Anya Adams (30:59):
That was such a beautiful way to end this Michelle.
Fanshen Cox (31:02):
Thank you. We're so glad you came over.
Anya Adams (31:11):
Thank you for listening to Sista Brunch with me Anya Adams and the fabulous Fanshen Cox. That was our conversation with Michelle Crenshaw. Visit sistabrunch.com to find out more about Michelle and how to support her upcoming projects.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Make sure you follow us on Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast. We're also on Twitter if you prefer over there @SistaBrunch. Also, if you are one of the perhaps older of our listeners, you might still be on Facebook. We're at facebook.com/sistabrunchpodcast. If you've got questions for us, for our ask Sista Brunch segment, visit sistabrunch.com, fill out our question form. It's very easy. You can ask anything you want, and we might just read it on the air. Also, be sure to sign up for our monthly newsletters. You're going to get job tips. You're going to get viewing recommendation and so much more, and do not forget to subscribe, rate and review our show on iTunes or wherever you listen to the podcast. Your support is so important to us and we appreciate you all.
Anya Adams (32:16):
Our senior producer is Sonata Lee Narcisse. Our show producer is Brittany Turner. Our executive producer is Christabel Nsiah Buadi. We'd like to acknowledge the fact that the land we record our podcast on is the original land of [inaudible 00:32:30] people. For those of us who live in Los Angeles, can't wait to see you next time. Take care of y'all.