Kamilah Forbes: The Apollo Theater’s Executive Producer

Episode Description:

Kamilah Forbes is an award-winning director and producer for theater and television, and currently serves as the Executive Producer at the world-famous Apollo Theater. Her directing credits include By the Way, Meet Vera Stark, The Blood Quilt, and Sunset Baby. She has also worked as associate director on the Tony Award-winning "A Raisin in the Sun”, and Emmy Award-winning “The Wiz Live” for NBC. Ms. Forbes’ most recent directorial work, “Between the World and Me” aired as a special event on HBO and HBO Max in November 2020, bringing her a host of acclaim and recognition. Ms. Forbes’ recent projects include directing the sold-out world premiere, tour, and theatrical adaptation of Ta-Nehisi Coates’ New York Times best-selling novel Between the World and Me. In this episode, Fanshen and Kamilah discuss the pivotal role Howard University played in shaping Kamilah’s career and how community building led Kamilah to becoming a producer.

TRANSCRIPT:

00:00:10:23 - 00:00:43:16

FANSHEN: Welcome back to Sista Brunch, the podcast all about black women thriving in entertainment and media. I'm your host, Fanshen Cox. And oh my goodness. We are so fortunate today to have Kamilah Forbes on with us. Kamilah Forbes is an award-winning director and producer for theater and television and currently serves as the executive producer at the world-famous Apollo Theater. Her directing credits include, By the Way, Meet Vera Stark, The Blood Quilt, and Sunset Baby.

00:00:43:18 - 00:01:21:10

FANSHEN: She has also worked as associate director on the Tony Award, winning A Raisin in the Sun and Emmy Award, winning The Wiz live for NBC. I know you all saw that. It was amazing. Ms. Forbes'  most recent directorial work Between the World and Me aired as a special event on HBO and HBO Max in November 2020, bringing her a host of acclaim and recognition Throughout her career, Ms. Forbes has won numerous awards for both directing and producing, including an NAACP Image Award, a Helen Hayes and Barrymore Award, and an Audelco. 

00:01:21:12 - 00:02:01:10

FANSHEN: Ms. Forbes' recent projects include - aww! this is so exciting - directing the sold-out world premiere tour and theatrical adaptation of Ta-Nehisi Coates, New York Times best-selling novel Between the World and Me. I got a chance to see it, you all. And oh, my goodness, yes. She's also set to direct the Broadway premiere. I, I can't believe these words are coming out of my mouth because this is amazing. She's directing the Broadway premiere of Soul Train alongside producer Questlove, playwright Dominique Mauricio, and choreographer Camille Brown.

00:02:01:12 - 00:02:15:29

FANSHEN: Ms. Forbes is widely known for her ability and commitment to continue to highlight the ideas, complexities and work of artists and the hip hop community and beyond. We are so, so excited to have you on. Ms. Kamilah Forbes.

00:02:16:01 - 00:02:21:18

KAMILAH: Aww! Thank you, Fanshen. This is awesome. It's great to be on.

00:02:21:27 - 00:02:23:13

FANSHEN: Oh, yes.

00:02:23:15 - 00:02:25:11

KAMILAH: Yeah, I wore my Sista Girl pink for the brunch.

00:02:25:13 - 00:02:28:09

FANSHEN: You sure did. And you look so good.

00:02:28:24 - 00:02:30:15

KAMILAH: And my white shoes. My white shoes.

00:02:31:10 - 00:02:35:29

FANSHEN: Cute! Okay, perfect. Too, perfect! Too, perfect!

00:02:36:01 - 00:02:57:10

FANSHEN: Okay, so. Oh, my goodness. We have so many things to ask you and to learn from you during this time with you. But we always like to start by asking our guests to go back as far as you'd like. It could be when you were born, when your parents were born, your great grandparents, or as far back as you want to go. And tell us about your journey to get to where you are today?  

00:02:57:28 - 00:03:30:14

KAMILAH: You know, I like to say I am the the child of immigrant parents. My parents immigrated to the United States from Jamaica in the late 60's, early 70's. I like to think of myself also as my great grandmother's wildest dream when I think about, you know, we're talking about not even a generation out of enslavement in Jamaica. And now to see myself and, my siblings, you know, where we are in this world is quite phenomenal and remarkable.

00:03:30:18 - 00:03:41:10

KAMILAH: So, you know, it starts there. It starts in that journey. My parents moved here and moved to Chicago, which is an interesting place for Caribbean people to move. Yes.

00:03:42:18 - 00:03:44:14

FANSHEN: Not New York. Not Florida.

00:03:44:18 - 00:03:46:19

KAMILAH: I know! Chicago.

00:03:47:14 - 00:03:51:10

FANSHEN: The cold. Dem did not like the cold in Chicago.

00:03:51:14 - 00:04:22:05

KAMILAH: Listen, listen, okay. This is not the move. And, you know, and so I think there's a lot of times on that journey you want to, you know, absorb yourself in the culture as much as possible. My father was a lover and still is a lover of music. Um, my mother, um, you know, is was a woman that's full of empathy and was also a lover of the theater. So that was always surrounding me growing up. And I did theater in high school.

00:04:22:07 - 00:04:54:06

KAMILAH: I played piano when I was younger. Um, and, so, you know then I go to Howard University and I study theater. Yes. HU, you know! I had to get to the East Coast and to study, to study theater because I saw the power of culture and how culture affected people on a such cellular level, right. When, when a book hits you in the right way, when a performance like hits just that.

00:04:54:08 - 00:05:24:25

KAMILAH: Right note something spiritually physically happens that no other I think form. Allows you to to get to that place. It's spiritual and wanted to be a part of that magic. I wanted to be an alchemist in that magic, which is why I started on this journey. Right. Go to Howard. I study theater. Um, I come out and, you know, was a was a broke theater graduate trying to figure out.

00:05:24:27 - 00:05:27:07

FANSHEN: You, you and Chadwick Boseman, right?

00:05:27:09 - 00:05:28:05

KAMILAH: That's right. We were very good friends.

00:05:28:07 - 00:05:30:02

FANSHEN: Rest in peace. 

00:05:30:04 - 00:05:54:09

KAMILAH: My brother. My brother, um, my brother Chad. We were at Howard together, dreaming of how, you know, these revolutionary thoughts of how, you know, about how theater changes the world. And we're going to make that theater that is going to literally change the social, political landscape, etcetera. And we dreamed about that together, you know, while we were eating our ramen noodles.

00:05:57:08 - 00:06:24:16

FANSHEN: And in a school that really nurtures that, we've had, you know, lots of other guests, too, that went to Howard and HBCUs and the ways that they nurture us. First of all, the that we're beyond just one essentialist representation of blackness, of the diaspora. And, I just feel like that constantly shines through when we have guests that went to HBCUs.  

00:06:25:28 - 00:07:07:15

KAMILAH: Yeah and it was a magical thing to study, you know, um, you know, theater or just any kind of like culture in a place that it reflects you, right? Where my foundation were, people like, you know, Amiri Baraka That's, that's my classic. That's a classic. I was studying, right like that. That was the beginning for me at Howard. And no other place can you get that kind of love and experience before you head out into the world. A real grounding and rooting of self, right? And that was really the magic, I think, of Howard and a lot of my classmates when we were there that continue to be my family now, my closest collaborators now.

00:07:07:23 - 00:07:23:21

KAMILAH: Um, yes, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Kenyata Matthews, close collaborators of mine. And you know, that all started at Howard with us kind of dreaming these very big dreams. And now we're out in the world, you know, trying to make them reality.

00:07:25:03 - 00:07:51:07

FANSHEN: I'll just. I'll just plant another seed for our Sistas and siblings that are listening around creating those relationships early on and then and then maintaining them. The ones that are right for you to maintain and healthy for you to maintain. But that artistry really, when you find those early relationships and can continue to carry those on. Look, look what you have made out of that. Look what happened?

00:07:51:24 - 00:08:15:04

KAMILAH: That's right. That's right. You know, because here's the thing. You know, you know, I know that there's so many people think about like there's a secret sauce when you get out. I mean, I definitely thought that, right. We graduated, remember, before leaving, you know, Howard, we were 22. Phylicia Rashad taught us the last year. She was was our acting instructor last semester. Right. It was like, oh, my God. Claire Huxtables here. You know?

00:08:15:27 - 00:08:58:26

KAMILAH: So of course, we're like, tell us a secret. You know, she's we're going through she's teaching us about craft. She's teaching us about commitment. But we were like, we want to know the secret. How do we survive? You know, what are we supposed to do? What is, what is the answer? We know that there's one answer and we need you to unlock it. Like that was like she had like 30 young, 20 year olds, like, tell us. And remember, she had us in this room and she was like, okay, I'm to tell y'all. We're like, okay, we ready? Everyone took out their notebook and she was she had everyone close their eyes. And like literally on some namaste. And we meditated for a good 35 minutes. And I remember opening my eyes like. Did she? Did I miss it?

00:08:58:28 - 00:09:30:24

KAMILAH: What? You know, but. But I realize, you know what that was what she was trying to teach us is that the answer isn't something that she can transmit. The answer is right. We have it inside of us. We have it in and around us. Whether that's the relationships that we're cultivating with the people right next to us. Right like that is the answer that we have it and we just got to slow down. We got to breathe. We got to trust and we got to listen. Um, I didn't realize that then.

00:09:34:25 - 00:09:39:06

FANSHEN: It takes time and we still need reminders some days.

00:09:40:00 - 00:10:00:29

KAMILAH: We still need reminders, right? Like there's not a magic pill. There's not a magic person that ultimately opens the door to your future, that there are many little steps that are built and relationships that are cultivated, that, that a life is ultimately built, Right? Not just a career, but a life.

00:10:06:27 - 00:10:36:09

FANSHEN: This is Sista Brunch, the podcast by and about black women and gender expansive people thriving in entertainment and media. Stay tuned for more of this conversation with our guest, the award winning Kamilah Forbes. And do us a favor. If you love our show, go ahead and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can follow us on Spotify. You can subscribe on Apple podcast and share your favorite episode with your friends or your family. Let them know all about Sista Brunch.

00:10:40:23 - 00:10:45:09

FANSHEN: We're back and so excited to continue this conversation with Kamilah Forbes.

00:10:48:09 - 00:11:07:19

FANSHEN: I know we're still in your young days moving, moving forward. But I have to ask about your transition from being a performer to a producer and do you miss performing? Is there a possibility that someday we might see you?

00:11:07:21 - 00:11:51:28

KAMILAH: You know, it's interesting Fanshen because like, you sit in a similar intersection, right, Like as a performer, a producer. Right. Um, a writer. Right. Um, I was that. And I thought that at that point, that performance was the way through. I thought. And part of the reason I didn't really know. Um, all the possibilities. At that point, I knew I wanted to perform. I knew I wanted to direct. I knew I wanted to, like, create the magic somehow, and I just needed to figure out how. I loved performing. I really did. But I don't miss it. I don't miss it. I, um, I right? Right. Like, it's so interesting. Like, I've fallen in love with other things. I don't know. Do you feel that?

00:11:52:10 - 00:12:28:13

FANSHEN: Yeah, I felt. I felt like especially when I did my one woman show, that's when I realized, oh, I'm a storyteller. And that comes in many forms. I'm not, I don't need to be the one that's on the stage. I got that out of my system and it was powerful. But it was powerful because I was telling my own story. I was telling my family's story. I was telling a story about race and racism in the United States, like. And so those were the important elements. And, and I realized there are so many ways to do that, not just being on stage or being in front of the camera.

00:12:29:01 - 00:13:12:27

FANSHEN: So and what I see in your work is how dedicated you are to uplifting others all the time. Like, that's what you do is here's a good, important story to tell. So I'm gonna put this group of people together like, would love to talk about the hip hop festival and how you got started but that, that you are about like bringing community together and shining a light on so many people, so many artists, um, and not necessarily needing to be front and center. Even though you are a fabulous Sista and I'm like, you could just. We could all just watch you.

00:13:15:01 - 00:13:19:19

KAMILAH: Aww! That's so sweet

00:13:19:21 - 00:13:27:27

FANSHEN: How did you start with the with the hip. Like, let's go there to. Yeah. Unpack. So the community feel too. Yeah.

00:13:28:02 - 00:14:01:14

KAMILAH: I mean, so you know you kind of hit it when you started talking about Chad, right? Like when we were in college, there was a program called Look, we were studying August Wilson, we were studying Hansberry, we were studying all of these great, amazing writers. And as acting students, we, you know, we had to perform them as well. What we began to realize is that, you know, there weren't a lot of stories in the world when we were looking for monologues or plays to do ourselves that were of our generation, that were of our generation at that point in time, voices that reflected us in that moment, you know?

00:14:01:16 - 00:14:02:01

FANSHEN: Right.

00:14:02:03 - 00:14:36:03

KAMILAH: And so we had a program called the Playwrights Lab. Now, I didn't consider myself a playwright at that time. Matter of fact, a lot of my peers were in other departments, whether they were directing majors, whether they were musical theater performance majors, whether they were, you know, whatever. But we were all part of this Playwrights Lab, and it was an opportunity for us to experiment and build work, multidisciplinary work, you know, devise theater so we really could experiment. So this was an opportunity to say solo work, right? Like this was an opportunity for us to say, okay, let's find our own voice.

00:14:36:10 - 00:15:30:01

KAMILAH: Um, and we started experimenting with hip hop theater. Chad and I wrote a play called Rhyme Deferred. And it was, you know, we were, you know, we loved hip hop and spoken word. And it was like, oh, let's collaborate. What if we put all of this on the stage again, this is 25 years pre Hamilton. So like this was like us, just dreaming of what could happen. So we created it. We produced it inside of the school. Then we started getting invited outside at festivals at the National Black Arts Festival in North Carolina. We got invited to the Kennedy Center. We got invited to New York City. And so these were festivals that were producing us. So we got bit by the bug to try to really build, to your point, build community, because what was interesting at our shows is that our friends would come, I would be casted in plays throughout the city, you know, and I was doing, you know, Two Train Running, you know August Wilson, my friends weren't coming to that.

00:15:30:13 - 00:15:37:15

KAMILAH: They were just they were like, Oh, okay. That's cool. You know. But we'll see you after you. We'll grab drinks.

00:15:37:28 - 00:15:40:06

FANSHEN: We'll grab drinks with you after. Break a leg.

00:15:40:09 - 00:16:19:19

You know, we're at 23, 24. They didn't see themselves reflected. But when we started doing our work, you know, we had two DJs on stage. There was breakdancing. There was like it was talking about the world now. They were showing up and a lot of other young people were showing up. And this was an opportunity in which the mainstream theater were not producing writers like this kind of work. They had not paid attention to this kind of work. They were recycling the classics. So what that meant was we also started to find other writers and artists and performers and solo artists like us that were not getting that, that did not find homes in mainstream theaters.

00:16:19:21 - 00:16:35:27

KAMILAH: So we had to build community for ourselves. So the producing came out of a necessity to build community for the artists around us that needed a home, but also the audiences that were like, Yeah. I want to see that. And so that's really how I cut my teeth on producing is really out of necessity.

00:16:36:12 - 00:16:40:23

FANSHEN: I love it. I love it. This reminds me of our mutual friend Michele Wilson.

00:16:40:29 - 00:16:45:27

KAMILAH: I just talked to her the other day. That's why I was like when this is over we gotta Kikiki.

00:16:46:12 - 00:17:36:16

FANSHEN: Yeah, we love her so much. And. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, please. And so we did the same thing at the University of Michigan, which was we were you know, we were we were missing our ability to do contemporary work, to do work that was reflecting. And so we she always was running. You know, she was she's a phenomenal actor, but she also was we created Black Theatre Workshop together there at University of Michigan. And it just reminds, I hope, our listeners to planting those seeds that when there is something that you want to do, especially reflecting who you are right now, you have that opportunity with community, like community is the way to make that happen. And that's what you all. That's what you did with this.

00:17:36:18 - 00:18:22:06

KAMILAH: Oh, that's so great to hear. Can I just say that, that's so great to hear. People, a lot of people think that like, you know, people and granted, yes, some people want to create theater, want to be actors, to be famous, to be glitz, to be this. But majority of us do it to build community. We want to be in conversation with one another. We want to create art that sparks, that makes you go Mmm. That makes you feel. That makes you say, I never realized that. Oh, this is interesting. Oh, I'm learning something about myself. Let me be in community with others while I do that. And so it's so cool to hear like other people's origin stories, you know what I'm saying? Like how people came to storytelling, right? The why, the why behind it.

00:18:22:13 - 00:18:53:11

FANSHEN: Well, you also get to experience. I feel like you get to experience that all the time. And your current role is executive producer at the Apollo Theater. Because speaking of something that came out of community that, you know, continues in that way and the way you can, we say, revived the Apollo and the offerings of the Apollo? Can we say that? Um, can you talk about what a typical day in your life is like? Being the executive producer at the Apollo.

00:18:53:14 - 00:19:34:23

KAMILAH: Oh, okay. No, it's actually really kind of beautiful. Um, you know, it's interesting because I never thought of coming here. Like, I never thought of running an institution, and definitely not the Apollo. Like, I moved to New York City and would drive down 125th Street just to see the marquee in real life like that was it was like a "haaaa", like hallowed ground for me. So when the opportunity came up, I never really saw myself as that kind of a leader. I saw myself as an artist, as a as a builder of community. But as the but, you know, I've been at the Apollo now for seven years, and I came at a point where the Apollo became a non-profit over about 20 years ago.

00:19:34:25 - 00:20:15:12

KAMILAH: My predecessor, Mikki Shepherd was known for literally building artistic institutions across the country. You know, she came in at BAM at a pivotal point, built infrastructure. You know, she built an organization in Brooklyn called 651 Arts, built the infrastructure long lasting. And that's what she came to do with the Apollo. Right. Is building not only taking this legacy institution, but building a mission driven, nonprofit arts cultural institution. Right? So I came at the point after Mickey had done a lot of groundwork around kind of that artistic or that institutional bones to say, Well, let's dream, let's create.

00:20:15:14 - 00:20:47:09

KAMILAH: What can we build? What do we want to be? Who do we want to be? It felt like being at that black box theater at Howard again, where it was like, Oh, what do we do here? Like, how do I how should we paint the walls? How should we render the inside of the space, you know, and how do we want to render our future? That's what got me excited about being here. So when I think about like so think about my job and my position truly, as I still think about it in the creative realm, I still think about it as a dreamer, as a builder, as a creative.

00:20:47:24 - 00:21:25:14

KAMILAH: But a typical day is, you know, I'm in. I meet with my team, which is a programming team. There's meetings with our senior director of education who manages a, you know, a 15 person education team and hearing about all the curriculum and updates that they're employing throughout schools and community programs across the city. And, you know, I meet with our development team who are around how I can support their work around fundraising because we fundraise close to 19 million or we're $19 million organization, a majority of which is  contributed income as well as earned.

00:21:26:00 - 00:21:39:04

KAMILAH: You know, and programming team. We dream of programming. You know, what are we going to put in the stage? How does what we shift and change a conversation, you know, and start to plot out what that narrative wants to be.

00:21:39:27 - 00:21:49:18

FANSHEN: Mm hmm. Yeah, just a little bit. Just a little bit. And then on top of that, you're. How much can you talk about Soul Train?

00:21:49:28 - 00:21:51:23

KAMILAH: Yeah, yeah, yeah! 

00:21:51:27 - 00:22:35:02

FANSHEN: Work it with Questlove. You know, Dominique Morisseau. Working with our, all of y'all legends working together who also, I feel like are finally starting to get your due in a broader sense. We all knew. We all knew each other and back to the community feel like we know who our legends are. But to start to have and I think it really started with Between the World and Me and that crossover into HBO, but to not and then with Questlove's documentary, right? So we are finally getting more broad recognition that we've always deserved. What is it like to work with that team? Tell us as much as you can and when can we see it!

00:22:35:04 - 00:23:19:12

KAMILAH: So, so we've been in workshop mode, so kind of close workshop mode. We will be having a run at ACT in San Francisco this August. This is sort of our first developmental run, August, September, so early fall in San Francisco. And then hopefully we don't know when yet. We'll circle back to New York. What is it like working? You know, I've known Dom was one of the first when we started the festival. I remember when she first moved to New York City, she had this play that she wrote when she was in Michigan. Retrospect for Life. I was like, Let's put it in a festival, you know? So we were we were we came up as those misfits, those dreamers here in New York, trying to understand how art moves and changes lives, right? Like that.  

00:23:19:14 - 00:23:52:17

KAMILAH: We were in that camp together and similarly so with our choreographer Camille Brown, right? Like we all kind of moved through our own in our own spaces and lanes, but also crisscrossing with one another together. I have a poster in my office of I've had the fortunate fortune of to be able to, to work with on so many plays and productions as director in development and workshop phases when it's just in the early stages and you know and I have this this poster here, Sunset Baby, right there.

00:23:52:19 - 00:24:24:12

KAMILAH: So I'll always, always, you know. So that's, that's my sis. That's family. So like, when we're working together, it's like, you know, it's working with family and, and I kind of feel that about, like, when we're building, you know, in the trenches. Building art is hard enough sometimes as it is, but also it's. It's a love offering. And the process should be just as much of a love offering as the product. And, you know, sometimes we forget. I know I've had to take time to learn that and realize.

00:24:24:14 - 00:24:50:02

KAMILAH: So when I think about the projects I really want to do, it's all about, Wait, who am I working with? Who do I want to be in the room with to really, you know, that's really important, you know, so that's built into the process. And Michelle is also one of those people, you know, we did we did one of Dominique plays in Baltimore, Detroit 67 together, as well as a bunch of other ones. But, you know, that was family. We were all family in that space.

00:24:54:13 - 00:25:16:00

FANSHEN: Hey, it's Fanshen Cox and you're listening to Sista Brunch. We'll be right back. And during this real quick break, go ahead and follow us on Twitter @SistaBrunch or on Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast. And you know what? Don't just follow us actually, you know, interact with us. Leave us a comment. Let us know how you're doing, ask us questions. We can't wait to see you on our socials.

00:25:20:28 - 00:25:28:20

KAMILAH: This is Kamilah Forbes and you're listening to Sista Brunch, the podcast all about black women thriving in entertainment and media.

00:25:30:22 - 00:25:51:08

FANSHEN: You know, you've done theater forever and you're crossing over into doing film and TV. And I love that you represent this possibility of making theater more accessible by putting it on our screens as well. What are the differences between working in those two mediums?

00:25:51:29 - 00:26:56:18

KAMILAH: You know, well, obviously there's a real obvious of the live effect, right? Like not having the immediacy of the audience. Um. But the flip side is that opportunity to be in millions of households and spark conversations amongst so many different people. I mean, Between the World was a film that was made during the pandemic. And we I've yet to still see it, which is kind of sad. I think I should do a screening, but yet to still see it in a theater with people. But but the beauty of technology allowed us to tell a story at a critical point in time when literally the world was shut down, when literally theaters were absolutely closed. And but we had to have this conversation around the worth of black life in this country, around the honoring of black life in this country. And we were able to make that happen.

00:26:57:15 - 00:28:12:08

FANSHEN: Okay. Um. We could keep you on forever. We're gonna get to. We're going to get to this kind of one of our final questions, and, um. And I just have to say, your commitment, what you talk about in your work and your work at the Apollo, in the work that you're doing and you personally, the concept that keeps coming up for me is Afrofuturism. Like this is what us having a future looks like. That just this keeps coming up for me, is like this is what making sure we know and the young folks and you know that this is what, this is Afrofuturism and I know and ironically, I think Ta-Nehisi Coates famously is an Afro pessimist. And yet here. Right. But here is the work you all are doing to say this is how community arts, you know, making it accessible so that if you live is is incredible. But if you can't see it live, here's a way for you to see it. That's Afrofuturism right here on this. Everything you're describing.

00:28:12:25 - 00:29:17:16

KAMILAH: It's so real and you know, it's so funny. It's so funny especially I see, you know, he's he you know, especially when I think about it's so interesting, I think, because, you know, he sits in a in such a space of, as a journalist, this idea of of fact. Um. And. And yet. And yet he's also one of those writers who writes comic books. Which lives in the complete world of fiction. So I'm so fascinated by how we use our past to render our future. And I think when we think about Afrofuturism, I think there is something to be said about. Afrofuturism is a context that I love, that you that you just manifested it, right? Because, you know, we started off saying that, you know, I started off saying that, you know, I'm a I feel like I'm my grandmother's wildest dream, but I didn't.

00:29:17:24 - 00:29:51:14

KAMILAH: Afrofuturism is not something that arrives out of nowhere. Right. Is not something that just arrives out of imagination. It's actually a future that has been plotted and planted. Right. But yet we have to make sure that we are imagining ourselves amongst that trajectory, imagining ourselves in the tomorrow. Um, and, you know, and it's when I think about Ti, I think about that, about, about that lineage, right? Because he's so firmly planted in this world of as a historian and as a journalist while at the same time holding the future.

00:29:51:29 - 00:30:25:01

FANSHEN: Well, this is a perfect opportunity to ask our question about how you would speak to your younger self. So, Kamilah, you are sitting down to a Sista Brunch in your fabulous pink blazer and white shoes. And I know she's wearing the same looking cute. So you're having a Sista Brunch with your with young Kamilah. And for fun, what are you both drinking and eating? And then what do you tell her? What do you want to leave her with?

00:30:25:09 - 00:30:37:28

KAMILAH: So I'm drinking a clear liquor because I like tequila or vodka, Particularly tequila because you do not get a hangover. I do not add any mixers because I know better. A good quality tequila.

00:30:38:13 - 00:30:39:13

FANSHEN: That's what I haven't been doing right. Okay. Good.

00:30:41:05 - 00:31:13:18

KAMILAH: A good quality. Right. A good quality. You know, because we know now my younger self, my might still be on a mimosa or which mimosas are great or, you know, maybe real like a mixer heavy cute little drink. Um, I would say and what I would say is don't be so anxious for the next. We're always so anxious. I was always so anxious for the next that I forgot to savor the now. That's what I'd say.

00:31:14:06 - 00:31:26:19

FANSHEN: Kamilah, thank you so, so much. We were so grateful for everything you do and for being here with us. And we got you in any and all ways.

00:31:26:21 - 00:31:34:24

KAMILAH: I just want to give you your flowers Fanshen and just say it's really an honor. It's really an honor to be here talking with you and I really hope to continue to build more community with you.

00:31:36:05 - 00:32:10:04

FANSHEN: Thank you so much for listening to Sista Brunch, the podcast that brings you the stories of black women breaking barriers and bringing joy to entertainment and media. This is our fourth season. You all. That means there are three previous seasons plus all of the fourth season available on our website. You can read our transcripts. You can see pictures and bios of our guests at SistaBrunch.Com. We so appreciate your support by subscribing to the podcast on Apple, following us on Spotify, leaving us great reviews, sharing the podcast with your friends and family.

00:32:10:06 - 00:32:42:29

FANSHEN: You can also always interact with us on Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast and support us. That's how you can support us by rating reviewing, telling folks about us. We appreciate you so much. Sista Brunch is brought to you by TruJuLo Productions. Our senior producer is Sonata Lee Narcisse. Our co-producer is Brittany Turner. Our executive producers are Christabel Nsiah-Buadi and Anya Adams. Our associate producers are Farida Abdul-Wahab and Mimi Slater. Our social media videos are cut by Maddie Black.

00:32:43:01 - 00:32:53:03

FANSHEN: We acknowledge that the land we record our podcast on is the original land of the Tongva and the Chumash people. Thank you so much for listening you all and we will catch you on the next one.