Elon Washington: We Deserve Joy
Episode Description:
Our conversation with Elon Washington will give you LIFE.
We talked to Elon in late 2019, and this conversation feels just as relevant today. We talk about the importance of telling Black stories without the white gaze, why it's important to celebrate who we are in the media and how to pace yourself when you have to talk about representation all the time. This screenwriter and community organizer has a passion for providing visibility for underrepresented voices. She is the founder of Black Film Allegiance, a virtual platform promoting collaboration and creative opportunity for up-and-coming filmmakers. She's also the Development Manager for Jordan Peele’s Monkeypaw Productions where she addresses current and upcoming projects.
Music Credits: Stock Media provided by AudioKraken / Pond5 Stock Media provided by BenBeats / Pond5
Transcript:
Fanshen Cox (00:12):
Hello, hello. We are back for another episode of Sista Brunch. I'm Fanshen Cox.
Anya Adams (00:17):
And I'm Anya Adams. Welcome, everybody.
Fanshen Cox (00:19):
Yes, and here we are.
Anya Adams (00:21):
We're here to talk about black women plus working in media entertainment and the arts. We talk to them about how they broke into the arts, how they stay in the arts, how they stay sane in the arts, knowing that this industry is very, very hard to break into.
Fanshen Cox (00:34):
Absolutely. So, prepare yourselves for some really candid stories and moving stories. And if you are also trying to figure out how to be a part of the industry, our guest can lead you in that direction, too, so hang out with us for another hour and a half. Because that's how much time Chris gives us.
Christabel Nsiah-Buadi (00:52):
[inaudible 00:00:52] it's 45 minutes.
Fanshen Cox (00:53):
Okay. Well, I'm so excited about our guests today because I will admit we've had a couple coffees or more than that together and-
Anya Adams (01:00):
She also has the coolest name.
Fanshen Cox (01:01):
Elon Washington, come on, we got to get into that.
Anya Adams (01:04):
You're writing books. Screenplays. You're name [crosstalk 00:01:08].
Fanshen Cox (01:08):
I'm telling you the name is... Yes. Yes. And she is, yeah, she's a screenwriter. She's a community organizer. She's got passion for providing visibility to underrepresented voices. She studied English, film, and media at the University of Florida, film and television at Savannah College of Art and Design.
Anya Adams (01:25):
Ooh, that's a good place to go.
Fanshen Cox (01:27):
Yes. Yes. And she is got her MFA in screenwriting from the New York Film Academy.
Anya Adams (01:34):
She's also the founder of the Black Film Allegiance, which we're going to talk more about.
Fanshen Cox (01:38):
Yes, definitely.
Anya Adams (01:39):
It's a virtual platform promoting collaboration and creative opportunity for up and coming filmmakers. She also works for a little unknown company called Monkey Paw that's run by-
Fanshen Cox (01:49):
I've never heard of that. Is that-
Anya Adams (01:49):
... an actor, I guess. His name's Jordan Peele.
Fanshen Cox (01:52):
Okay. Is he-
Anya Adams (01:52):
I've never heard of him.
Fanshen Cox (01:53):
Okay. Yeah.
Anya Adams (01:54):
So, you can tell us a little bit more about that. She's the development manager there where she addresses current and upcoming projects, so that's really effing cool.
Fanshen Cox (02:03):
Yeah. Welcome, Elon.
Elon Washington (02:04):
Thank you so much for having me.
Anya Adams (02:06):
So glad to have you.
Fanshen Cox (02:07):
So, Elon, what we often do at the beginning of the show is just go back to the beginning. Where were those initial thoughts of eventually being in the industry? How did they come to you?
Anya Adams (02:17):
And development. I mean, is that where you want it to go? Is that a holding...
Elon Washington (02:20):
I kind of fell into development. Originally, I always just wanted to write, just like you mentioned, and I always wrote poetry. And that's how I fell in love with writing. And I used to do open mic also, and from that, or when I used to perform, I used to go into different personas and [crosstalk 00:02:37].
Anya Adams (02:36):
Oh, wow.
Fanshen Cox (02:38):
We love it.
Elon Washington (02:38):
Yeah. And I would just go up there. I wouldn't say that it was my story, because it usually wasn't, it was just something I saw or a friend experienced or whatever. And so, that was when I first fell in love with character work and enjoyed getting into that. And I took an elective through the African American literature program and-
Anya Adams (02:53):
Wait, what's that?
Elon Washington (02:54):
Well at the University of Florida, unfortunately, all the black classes are still elective, so you have to take them voluntarily. There are majors offered at this point, but at the time, it wasn't something that was advertised. I was in English, just like you mentioned, but while I was in the department, I saw that that was an opportunity for me to take and get involved in. So, that's when I fell in love with not just film, but black film. And that was my early stages of consciousness, too, because Amy [inaudible 00:00:03:25], shout out, was such an excellent professor, and I learned a lot in that space. So, that was when I realized that I could pair some of the passions I have about people of color in general, but also my own community as a black woman and put that in my art.
Elon Washington (03:40):
So, that's when I first fell in love with it, but I kind of fell into development. I always did internships. And I lived in Atlanta for a bit when I went to Savannah College of Art and Design because I went to that campus first, and I did some internships there that I really enjoyed. I actually originally went there because I was supposed to be working on a reality TV show that got canceled, and so after that I was like, "Okay, here's the thing. I'm going to always need a backup plan." Now, that was a very important experience for me to learn from and grow from, and so it angled how I chose to go about approaching LA. And so, I was like, at least in Atlanta, I was in closer proximity to home, but being out here, I was like, "Oh no, I'm definitely going to have to use school again, probably to find my way out here." So, that's what I did.
Elon Washington (04:25):
And so, I left that program and went to the New York Film Academy, and I did more internships there. And from interning is how I ended up on the production side, and that's how I landed in development. So, being in Monkey Paw, they're so kind and gracious with the way that they allow us to both do our creative aspects and work there, so I didn't feel like I had to sacrifice anything. But yeah, that's how I ended up on the production side.
Fanshen Cox (04:50):
Wow.
Anya Adams (04:51):
That's awesome.
Fanshen Cox (04:51):
How'd you find the transition from being in that elective course where you were able to start to really learn about black films and black storytelling and then go to New York Film Academy where that may not have been encouraged?
Elon Washington (05:09):
I feel like all my life I had to fight. It was just all different forms of battles, just in terms of lack of representation. Once I knew that other aspects existed or how long we've been in the game even, I was upset that I didn't know sooner. I was even hurt that I didn't know sooner, because I felt like it was almost just a disrespect to everyone that came before me. And I felt it should have been also my personal responsibility to look, but I just never knew to ask because I was never taught. So, from that, it made me want to enlighten others and tell people. And so, that was how it became a connecting point for me, and I was like, "Okay, what better way to do it than through entertainment?"
Fanshen Cox (05:45):
Yes. And so, then talk about Black Film Allegiance. Yeah. What were the seeds that sparked you to do that?
Elon Washington (05:52):
So, because I'm moved around so much, it was really important to me that I did share some information I had learned moving from place to place and trying and failing with different aspects I was trying to go through, like the reality show that I thought, "Okay, great. This isn't so bad at all. This is easy." Then it was canceled. So, those realities, I thought it was important to share with other people or what that experience was like or what it's like being a PA, what's the real experience. Because it sounds good, but it's a lot of work. So, people that don't have any access, that's what I wanted to create. So, I started the platform. It's live on Instagram, that's the primary space that we feature people, but I realized at this point, people are less likely to pull out a business card and more likely to just show you their Instagram and add your name in. So, I was like, "This is the best space to do it because this is what people are looking at."
Elon Washington (06:41):
So, with it, I decided to feature different black creatives, highlight what their crew interests are, what their genre interests are, and who inspires them, so that other people with similar interests would reach out to them and that they could collaborate and start, basically, their own tribe, especially for transplants, but also for people that already live here that maybe weren't already in the industry and want to switch up or maybe they were in the production company side as execs and went to the switch to the creative. So, it's been a mix of different types of people from emerging artists to, like I said, people that just trying to start over. So, it's been great.
Anya Adams (07:15):
And did you say crew as well? Meaning like makeup, hair, wardrobe, all that kind of stuff?
Elon Washington (07:21):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Fanshen Cox (07:23):
Because I hear that black people in crew don't really exist. There aren't really any-
Anya Adams (07:29):
I've heard that.
Fanshen Cox (07:29):
Haven't we heard [crosstalk 00:07:31] it's a refrain on-
Anya Adams (07:32):
I feel like there aren't any of them at all.
Fanshen Cox (07:34):
Right. We can't find them anywhere. You keep telling us we have to hire them, but where are we supposed to find them?
Elon Washington (07:39):
Exactly. So, that answering that is definitely a huge reason why definitely I wanted to do that as well, because I know they exist. I've met them, and it was just a matter of them gaining that visibility. And I think that's constantly something that we all seek to help with that mission.
Fanshen Cox (08:00):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. We are just going to take a quick music break, but listen, hang out, because we will be right back.
Fanshen Cox (08:17):
Join our community. You can join us on Twitter at Sista Brunch and also on Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast.
Anya Adams (08:28):
I'm Anya Adams.
Fanshen Cox (08:29):
And I'm Fanshen Cox.
Anya Adams (08:30):
Now back to our interview with Elon Washington, the woman with the coolest name in Hollywood. It sounds like you created this Black Film Allegiance to fill a huge need, and it sounds like it's really picking up speed. You work in development because you fell into it, and you like to write. So, I feel like, because we talk to a lot of people who have found their dream and are on their way here, and I feel you're in this middle part of your career. Where are you going? What is your ultimate goal? Now that you're embedded in the industry, you've got these great contacts, you're doing this amazing stuff for young black, emerging filmmakers and creators, but what's going on with you? What do you want to be?
Elon Washington (09:14):
Yeah, you're 100% right. I think about that a lot, too, and I feel like my true passion is in serving community. And so, I would love for that to be my full-time gig and for writing to be something that I do in addition to that. And so, my ideal life would be full-time doing Black Film Allegiance and then writing scripts and sharing them with other people in that type of way.
Fanshen Cox (09:37):
So, you've got the writing, which is so strong, you've got this work that you're doing, and then you also work for a company that everybody's trying to be part of it.
Anya Adams (09:46):
That's so funny.
Fanshen Cox (09:47):
So, talk about what it's like to work at Monkey Paw. And actually, for our listeners, tell us a little more about Monkey Paw and then what it's like to work there.
Elon Washington (09:57):
For sure. So, the interesting thing about my experience there is that they pretty much raised me because that was my first job. So, I started there as an intern, really, right after I graduated and-
Fanshen Cox (10:11):
And how did you get that... Sorry. Because I think people would want to know, what do you mean you got to Monkey Paw just after graduating ? How'd you do that?
Elon Washington (10:18):
Yeah. So, before that I was at the Mission Entertainment, great people over there, and Trevor Wall told me to be specific in my interests and in my goals and-
Anya Adams (10:28):
Very important.
Fanshen Cox (10:28):
Yes.
Elon Washington (10:28):
It's very important.
Fanshen Cox (10:29):
Yes.
Elon Washington (10:30):
And so, he said, "Who would you most like to meet, work for, who are you inspired by? Who would be that singular person? If you had to name them?" I said, "Jordan Peele." And so, he said, "Okay, I know somebody over there that's an assistant, and so I'll connect you guys and you guys could get lunch or something." So, said, "Okay, cool. Thank you." So, I was supposed to meet up with [inaudible 00:10:51], good friend now. And it was supposed to be a lunch meeting, but she was really busy that day so I had to come to the office. So, she was like, "Do you mind coming in?" I'm like, "Absolutely"
Fanshen Cox (11:00):
Not at all.
Elon Washington (11:02):
So, yeah, I came in, and there were two interns there at the time and I was looking at them like,' "Huh, I didn't know you guys had interns. Fascinating." But I met with her, and she just gave an opportunity to ask whatever questions I wanted. And she asked what I was doing in school and about my scripts. And she was into it because they're a genre company, but my sensibilities aligned with hers and what she felt was a lot of other peoples there. So, I was like, "Oh, okay, cool." But I was like, "Well, since I'm here, what's their position right there? What do they do? [crosstalk 00:11:35]." And she was like, "Is that something you'd be interested in?" And I was like, "Absolutely." And it just happened to be at the time they were both getting promoted, and so they were looking for new interns. But it wasn't something that was advertised or anything. It was just a blessing. It worked out that I just happened to be there and ask.
Elon Washington (11:54):
And so, it was just a series of events that happened back to back to back where I told her I was interested, but they don't usually or, at the time, didn't usually include graduated people or that had already finished. And so, I was done, so I was like, well, she was going to put in a good word for me and we're like, "We'll see where this goes." And so, maybe a couple of weeks later I followed up, and she was like, "Oh, hey, yeah, definitely," and then just continued the next stages of the internship process and interviewed me. And yeah, it was brand new when I got there. Half the size from what it is now. And so, I got to grow with it, so while they're raising me, it's like we were growing together. So, it's a very familial environment. So, I'll be with them till the wheels fall off.
Fanshen Cox (12:35):
And you mentioned that Monkey Paw's is very genre-based.
Elon Washington (12:39):
Right. So, about the company. So, yes, always a genre focus. There aren't enough people of color in those spaces, and we're still striving to push that needle forward. And so, yeah, genre is always a focus. Pretty much-
Fanshen Cox (12:51):
And describe what genre means. What do you mean by genre?
Elon Washington (12:54):
So, sci-fi, horror, pretty much anything except for straight dramedy and... Dramedy. Drama or comedy. We do genre bending aspects, as well. So, if it has elements of something or if it's like a social thriller that's elevated in that sense, then it's also very on brand for us. So, also, obviously social consciousness is a big component of the company, as well, tied with also focus on underrepresented voices, which is always something that's important, both onscreen and behind screen. And because there are serious components of our properties that deal with social messages. It's also important to have a sense of fun and timelessness because it's that rewatchability that Jordan really appreciates and loves, and I think that's why many people were saying, "I saw Get Out six times." I'm like, "Me too." So, yeah, that pretty much.
Anya Adams (13:48):
It's so interesting, too, that genre is so important. I was thinking about this because I was looking at the slate of Marvel superheroes that are on television, and they're all white. And then I was like, "This is really perpetuating the white savior like-
Fanshen Cox (14:06):
Right. Right.
Elon Washington (14:07):
That's so true.
Anya Adams (14:08):
The white savior moniker that we're trying to get out of, and in these genre spaces, that's where we should be bending ideas and thoughts and things. And so, to be looking at all of these white heroes coming in that have black or brown sidekicks, we're just mimicking this thing that we're trying to break down. I can't even speak English but I-
Fanshen Cox (14:33):
Even with genre, right?
Anya Adams (14:33):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (14:33):
not even within something that is full on not supposed to be of our current world. We can't even see that. We don't even exist in that.
Anya Adams (14:43):
And when we do do it, it's just not great, which is so unfortunate. It's just like it gets affected because there's so many white voices that have thoughts and feelings about how these black genres should look, and that's very white focus. So, it's really exciting that you guys are doing that, but you must be battling that a bit, too, when you're trying to roll out these stories.
Elon Washington (15:07):
Because Jordan likes to be subversive with the way that he goes about creating, we like to be aware of those things so that we can flip them. And that was one of the most interesting things I found about something like Get Out, where it's like, we know that there has to be a white savior role, so to flip that makes it even more unexpected and elevates the conversation. So, yeah, I agree with you, and if more people are at least having the conversations and aware of it, I think that at least there could be changed in that sense, for sure.
Anya Adams (15:35):
Yeah. Yeah.
Fanshen Cox (15:36):
And we've also talked about, and this is true with Watchmen who we've all said we love this show, and at the same time, it's very rooted in our trauma and our pain. And so, that's another thing... I'm sorry to keep plugging your writing, but you have hero characters that represent an experience and a time period that most of us don't even know that we existed in, and then these are our heroes. And there's still pain. I'm not saying we can't address that, but that these are also representative of heroes of those stories, I think is so important and-
Anya Adams (16:12):
And important for us now to start really highlighting people of color as heroes, not victims who survive some horrible thing and got pulled out of this and stood strong in the end. But in fact, led the charge-
Fanshen Cox (16:26):
Born heroes. Yeah, yeah.
Anya Adams (16:27):
... or born heroes and died as heroes.
Elon Washington (16:29):
We deserve joy, and that's something that I want people to focus on more, especially in conversation about the constant police brutality or slavery narratives. It's not that they're not important, because they matter, but yeah, we deserve to have a full experience of entertainment just like any other viewer without having to brace ourselves for something triggering. So, I completely agree.
Fanshen Cox (16:50):
Yeah.
Anya Adams (16:52):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be back in a moment.
Fanshen Cox (17:12):
It's Sista Brunch with Anya Adams and Fanshen Cox. Now back to our interview.
Fanshen Cox (17:17):
Can you talk about barriers either at work or outside of work? What are the things, and I guess I am going back to the struggle story, but-
Anya Adams (17:26):
But it's [crosstalk 00:17:27] it's pertinent in terms of young black women, men, all of us trying to come up into this industry and the shit we're going to run into because we're going to run into it.
Elon Washington (17:38):
Yeah. I never shy away from talking about that just because I hope that knowing the truth or full spectrum of a conversation can be helpful to other people, and I feel like the same thing that we have to experience anywhere. And it's just that in any space where there's a diversity of perspectives and social viewpoints and even identities, you have to do some teaching. And I think that in every space I've been in, that's the most taxing aspect, because you find yourself expressing why something matters, and you wonder, at the end of the day, why you're so tired. And it's because I've been teaching, and teaching is exhausting.
Fanshen Cox (18:17):
For free, at that.
Anya Adams (18:18):
That was such a mature way to put it.
Fanshen Cox (18:21):
It's so perfect. So, how do you deal with that and how do you keep going? And what's your self-care and all of that?
Elon Washington (18:28):
I learned to be selective. There are certain-
Fanshen Cox (18:30):
With people you teach?
Elon Washington (18:32):
With moments that I choose to teach. Because there are certain things that matter more than others in terms of the stakes. If I know that other people that look like me, feel like me, will be at a disadvantage if I don't speak up or if they'll have to suffer through a [inaudible 00:18:48] experience or whatever through cinema or whatever it is I'm giving notes on. Honestly, even if it is someone that is just... a creative asks me for advice. It doesn't really matter who it is, is for any category. Yeah, I have to speak truth on that because if I don't then, yeah, the audience will have to suffer through that experience and it could have been avoided. And I feel like it would be partially my responsibility if I allowed that to happen.
Elon Washington (19:14):
So, during those times, I will always say something, but during something more passive, I try to use social... not social commentary, but whatever's going on in pop culture as an opportunity for conversation. So, during those, I don't want to say arguments, but intellectual debate, that's when I'll choose to be selective. When to just say, "I'll let you have that," or like, "This matters because you need to see why this matters here so that you can get it over there. I need you to understand fully as a reference point," especially when addressing allies and fully understanding what that means and what you have to understand both in terms of the content itself, but also the audience.
Elon Washington (19:55):
Understanding the audience matters so much, and not just if you're someone on the marketing side, no, it matters at every stage because you have to think about how people will receive what you're saying. And I think there's an inherent misunderstanding sometimes in what we need and how we feel. I don't know where it gets lost in translation, but that's the part that I always get exhausted teaching because I have to say it again and again and again. Similar to what we were talking about with the, the negativity or the torture porn conversation, is something that comes up a lot or how much is too much. It's like, "Okay, but this is true and this is happening." Yes, but it's like, we also have to see this on the news every day. How much is too much? When can we stop saying this and talk about something else?
Elon Washington (20:35):
So, yeah, I've just learned to be selective with my peace and not allowing a situation to have power to remove that. But I'd be lying if I said it was an easy thing to do every day because there's sometimes you just want to go home and just veg out but-
Fanshen Cox (20:51):
What does your veg out look like?
Elon Washington (20:53):
It looks like watching old shows that I know that I've enjoyed. I won't have to analyze them or think about something being problematic.
Fanshen Cox (21:02):
Like what? Our of curiosity.
Elon Washington (21:03):
I love Martin.
Fanshen Cox (21:04):
Oh, really?
Elon Washington (21:05):
Yeah. And also you know that was in Detroit where [crosstalk 00:21:10] also same thing. Anything that felt familial and comfortable growing up, it's nice to go back to that. Because it's like, "Hey, not only are you not alone, but this is what you're fighting for." So, it makes me feel good to return to that.
Fanshen Cox (21:23):
Yeah. And to have reminders that there are... Yeah. Like you've said, fighting for, and there are folks who came before us. Right? We do have examples to point to where we were telling our stories. And at that time, the writer's rooms were not all black or even maybe not one person, but more and more people are understanding that that's what it needs to look like, too. And so, there's some hope there.
Elon Washington (21:45):
Exactly That if they could do it, then, I mean, I could at least do my best.
Fanshen Cox (21:50):
No doubt.
Elon Washington (21:51):
From the specific place of being at a production company and also wearing all the hats that we discussed, I see why certain things have to happen, but I think that also sometimes people are complicit with decisions that aren't necessarily pushing us forward. And I think about that a lot when people are evaluating content, and like I was saying with what's okay to show. There were a lot of Queen and Slim conversations, for instance, where we're just.... It's interesting to know, and I like to see where people stand on diff different things because it's educational. Whenever there's any major black film, it's important to hear what people have to say about it. But then after a while, I just have to not listen to them anymore because it's not always about what we enjoy and what we appreciate.
Elon Washington (22:39):
Sometimes people are evaluating something just based off of what they think looked good are more justifying moments that they didn't personally even connect with just because they feel they should. We're at a weird space right now where people want to be more actively involved in art and in depictions of self, but they don't know how to articulate it. I think seeing people's difficulty navigating that makes me really frustrated because I want to be more helpful than I feel like I can.
Anya Adams (23:05):
Yeah.
Christabel Nsiah-Buadi (23:06):
That's really interesting that you say that because... And this is Chris here for people listening. Talking about Queen and Slim, a lot of people have had difficulty in terms of being able to critique it, and you may not feel comfortable talking about that, I suspect you will be. But I found it very interesting that people really struggled with, honestly, critiquing the movie. And so, out of that, I know, in journalism circles, there has been this conversation about how do we critique black film? How do we [crosstalk 00:23:37] which is what you're talking about. I would love to get your sense of where do we go from here? What do you think we need to do as someone who thinks about all the time?
Elon Washington (23:45):
Yes. So-
Anya Adams (23:47):
Great question, Chris.
Christabel Nsiah-Buadi (23:49):
Thank you.
Anya Adams (23:50):
You should host a podcast.
Elon Washington (23:53):
The reason why it frustrates me or with why I mentioned it is because I feel like we've become accustomed to suffering through a cinematic experience. And it's because-
Fanshen Cox (24:03):
Wait, wait. What?
Elon Washington (24:06):
We think [crosstalk 00:24:07].
Fanshen Cox (24:08):
That's what she said [inaudible 00:24:07].
Elon Washington (24:08):
Yeah. And it's because we're all teaching. The same way I said that I have to teach every day, y'all are. So, I think that over time we've subconsciously started shifting our perspective who the audience is, and rather they say it's for us or not, it is for the white audience. Because they're constantly trying to show this is what the experience is like, this is why we matter, this is our humanity, when we really should be just [crosstalk 00:24:32].
Fanshen Cox (24:34):
It's the white gaze. It's the white gaze.
Christabel Nsiah-Buadi (24:36):
So then my follow up is this. If we are teaching, even though we think we're creating art for ourselves, but we're not, what is holding us back from having these honest conversations in public spaces? You know what I mean? I want us to [crosstalk 00:24:52] down. Let's get to it.
Elon Washington (24:54):
So, even for this, and I've thought about this a lot too, it's because we're afraid that we'll run out of chances. We're always constantly in fear of the door closing, and we don't want to ruin someone else's opportunity just because we have critiques. I feel like other people have the privilege of saying, "I appreciated this. I didn't like that," or just saying flat out, "This wasn't for me and I couldn't stand it," without people saying, "Oh, that's why we're not investing in this film because their own community, they didn't like it, so why [inaudible 00:25:18] trust doing X, Y, Z?"
Anya Adams (25:23):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. We'll be back in a moment.
Fanshen Cox (25:47):
Did you know what this is? Were you in your head, like, "What is this?" I'm going to tell you. It's Sista Brunch with Anya Adams and Fanshen Cox. Now back to our interview.
Elon Washington (25:56):
I miss the days where you could make a quality hood classic for your people, by your people, and it just be okay because there are some excellent movies in that category. [inaudible 00:26:06] being one of my favorite. Heck I loved Baby Boy, but you can't... Or even in talking about Queen and Slim with certain people, I would talk about... People always approximate it to Bonnie and Clyde and Thelma and Louise, but I'll talk about remember Set It Off where they had the ability to have agency over how they went about doing certain things or what their outcome was? They went out fighting. So, the fact that other people don't know what that is, it's kind of like the debate between PWIs and HBCUs, where it's like, maybe we should have just never integrated. Because once we started doing that, we started changing who we were, how we presented based off of that other perception.
Elon Washington (26:42):
So, my interest would be for it to return back to that other space, not ignoring the presence of that other audience, because it's important to keep that in mind, but just to think about what would you like to see? What are the people like in your actual communities, as opposed to, "This is what I think blackness looks like," because that's the same mentality that people of other races are using to depict us and it's just not accurate, even in terms of stereotyping ourselves.
Anya Adams (27:08):
I mean, the thing about blackness is it's so diverse.
Elon Washington (27:12):
Exactly.
Fanshen Cox (27:13):
Right. Right. We're not a [crosstalk 00:27:14].
Anya Adams (27:14):
Pulling it out of... I mean, it is connected to whiteness in some senses, so I mean, like creating a bubble again, I'm not sure if that... For me, it's not resonating, but I would love to hear more about that.
Elon Washington (27:28):
Not to create a bubble of exclusion because I do feel like the platform is power, but to the point where we think about it like, "Let's make what we enjoy, not what we think."
Anya Adams (27:38):
Sure.
Fanshen Cox (27:38):
Without the white gaze.
Elon Washington (27:39):
Yeah.
Fanshen Cox (27:40):
Right?
Anya Adams (27:40):
I hear that-
Fanshen Cox (27:40):
So like the freedom of just telling a story.
Anya Adams (27:42):
... I don't think that Lena and Melina we're like, "Let's make this for white people." I think they truly feel like they created a movie about the black experience for black people.
Fanshen Cox (27:55):
You mean, if you asked them, they would tell you.
Anya Adams (27:58):
It think that that is like.... Now, are they motivated by unconscious bias and things that happened in their life that may have come through? But I don't know that they were like, "We're going to make this so that white people feel something for black people."
Elon Washington (28:09):
Having read a lot of the interviews, too, that was what my take was with why I say that. One thing that went viral on black Twitter was like Lena approximating her and Melina to whiteness by saying Melina's mix and that Lena doesn't just like black films, she's also inspired by white films, too. So, it somehow created a different form of-
Fanshen Cox (28:31):
Yeah, that's not helpful. Yeah, right.
Elon Washington (28:31):
So, of course she's saying that, too, why wasn't [crosstalk 00:00:28:33]. You know what I mean? But also, who is she to say that's a unique experience because we've all been forced to have inspirations that don't look like us.
Fanshen Cox (28:42):
And I wonder also, because Elon and I are both in development that I can tell you, there's not a story told that doesn't have to right now include the white gaze.
Anya Adams (28:55):
That doesn't have to.
Fanshen Cox (28:56):
Right. Even if it's the blackety blackest... and you want to pitch it that way and they're... Because Lena's still not the ultimate decider. You know what I'm saying? The money has to come, and the money is coming from whiteness still very, very much. So, I mean, I was going to say, if you all saw My Name is Dolomite, because I thought about that is a great example of... Well, at least the original Dolomite for sure was like, "I'm just making this damn movie." And it was, it was like, "I'm going to take everybody that I know and make this movie." And I thought they did a nice job of... That one, I didn't see a lot of white gaze and watching us.
Elon Washington (29:39):
I still feel like, just like what you're saying, that it can be done successfully and still getting acknowledgement because, I mean, with Moonlight, for instance, to me, that's an example of doing something that is authentic to the story, characters, and people, not even considering how to be received by other people. Because I'm sure that they didn't do that thinking, "Oh wow, we're going to win something because it totally has not been the case in the past."
Fanshen Cox (30:10):
We talked about the importance of joy, right? And we now talked about the barriers, but what is joyful about your job?
Elon Washington (30:16):
I think it was joyful about it is getting an opportunity to connect other people to their space of opportunity. I guess very similar to what I do at Black Film Allegiance, I like being able to give people, not insider information, but just the knowledge that things are more accessible than they realize. Because on our end, people are constantly looking, "Oh, we need a woman of color in this space. Oh, we need da, da, da, da, da." But it's like on the creative end, they're just hearing, "Oh, just get in however you can. [inaudible 00:30:46] get spotted, selected if you..."
Elon Washington (30:48):
But it's actually, if you just meet people, network, you're just one person away from anybody, so I like that, or my favorite part is that, by being in that space, I've had a different understanding of what that journey is like in terms of how things are made and it's allowed me to be encouraging to other people. So, that that's my favorite part, is be able to give some type of hope in the... Because I know how much work goes into developing a project when something's your baby, so just to be able to say, "Look, I can absolutely get eyes on something," it feels good to be able to help in any type of way.
Fanshen Cox (31:19):
So, if we don't have a lot of examples to point to, and we have joy via our jobs by helping other people tell their stories, how do we navigate the conversations with those folks who aren't where they want to be, or we can help them get there of both saying, "There's not a lot out there for you to point to but please tell your story"? Where are the examples for them?
Elon Washington (31:44):
That goes back to what we were saying about just being authentic to yourself. I think that so often people are doing what they think sells instead of what's true to them, and so part of it is just telling people to do what they know, not in a way that's restrictive because you can always research something, just like what we're talking about with period pieces or with something of that nature. But just to think out of the box in that sense, instead of just doing what you've seen. I think a lot of times at work people say, "Oh, I've got the gay version of Get Out," but it's like, "Okay, well if a company's already done a particular property, they're not trying to do it again, so what's the next thing? What's the new story that you're interested in?" So, I think it's partially that, for sure.
Fanshen Cox (32:25):
We talk about that a lot around your authentic voice, especially for writers, right? You have to start from our voice. May I share a little bit about your screenplay?
Elon Washington (32:35):
Oh, sure.
Fanshen Cox (32:35):
Because I think it speaks to, and I won't give too much away, but it about religion. And that's something that I think we don't have, especially in a mainstream accessible way to black folks, and I'll say it's also about Moors.
Elon Washington (32:51):
I love research just for me personally, so even if I don't super know something, I'll figure it out and I'll go put myself in spaces where I can no more and no matter what the category is. And that's something that, yeah, I for sure encourage other people to do that, too. Even if they're doing something about music and you're not in that space, go to some shows, talk to some people. I think that's important. Because you can tell the difference between when someone's done their research and when they haven't in the pages. So, yeah, that was a large part of my experience with that.
Elon Washington (33:20):
Also just thinking about the core of what matters for something. People talk a lot about high concept works in pitches and doing the next zippy thing, but really, for me, high concept isn't just approximating something to a property that's already out. They like to say, "This meets that." It's not just that, it's also saying, like you were saying, "What if, in the history of the development of religion, black Muslims were in power and Christians were exiled?" And that's something that actually happened. So, that's the type of core root for a story that I both look for on the development side, but also that I like to create with. And I think that when people do something that's specific... I think specificity is the theme of this.
Elon Washington (34:04):
But also with intentionality, because it can't be a coincidence that you just pepper this person, this person, and that's the issue when people try to do stuff that's diverse, is they just be like, "Oh, one of this, one of that." No, like why? There's got to be specific reasons with why all these people are in this space and how does that translate to what we're dealing with today? How can this help people and advance us forward?" So, those are all the things that mattered to me a lot.
Fanshen Cox (34:25):
So, tips, we want some tips, because you've already given us so many, but if you had to consolidate these amazing folks that you're helping to nurture, what are some tips [crosstalk 00:34:35].
Anya Adams (34:35):
Navigating or coming into this industry.
Elon Washington (34:38):
For people that want to be writer/directors, these festivals spaces are extremely important. I feel like people are looking at them now more than ever, it seems like. And I think that by having something unique in those spaces and having a focus on story, that's how you get noticed. Because a lot of things look beautiful, but do you have something to say? I think fine tuning what your personal lens is and point of view is, is how to advance because that's how you maintain not just a level of seniority, to be frank, over the other films and those spaces. Because you know how it is when you're watching a whole bunch of short films back to back, it becomes a blur after awhile, but you stand out when you have something to say and people remember you and pass your name along. And it happens just like that. It's easier than people realize. I don't want to oversimplify it, but getting in the room is at least easier than people realize. And I think if people hone into those aspects of their craft, as it relates to their voice, then that'll make all the difference.
Anya Adams (35:44):
Thank you so much, Elon Washington, for coming.
Elon Washington (35:47):
Of course.
Anya Adams (35:48):
This wonderful writer, community organizer, development manager-
Fanshen Cox (35:51):
Everything.
Anya Adams (35:51):
... working at Monkey Paw with that guy, and also the founder of Black Film Allegiance. Go check that out on Insta.
Elon Washington (35:58):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (35:58):
Yeah. And it's www.bfallegiance.com, and then on Instagram-
Elon Washington (36:03):
Yeah. It's bfallegiance, again.
Fanshen Cox (36:05):
Oh, bfallegiance? Okay. On Instagram, too.
Anya Adams (36:07):
Like it.
Fanshen Cox (36:08):
Follow it. Support it. Send your stuff in so that you can be highlighted.
Elon Washington (36:11):
For sure. For sure.
Anya Adams (36:11):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (36:12):
All right.
Anya Adams (36:13):
Thank you.
Elon Washington (36:14):
Thank you.
Anya Adams (36:14):
Thank you.
Christabel Nsiah-Buadi (36:24):
Hey there, this is Christabel Nsiah-Buadi, executive producer of Sista Brunch. You will have heard me weighing in on the conversation. I hope you enjoyed the show. Visit our website. We're at sisterbrunch.com, and join our community of creators. We're on Twitter @sisterbrunch, on Instagram @sisterbrunchpodcast, and we're on Facebook at facebook.com/sistabrunchpodcast. Be sure to subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time.