Anne Marie Fox: Capturing Hollywood
Episode Description:
Anne Marie Fox is a prolific and versatile photographer specializing in portraiture, film & television unit stills. She built her portfolio shooting images for travel and fashion magazines before getting her film break on Kenneth Branagh’s Frankenstein, and since then has been the still photographer on films like Dallas Buyers Club and Wild and TV shows like HBO’s Insecure. She talks to Anya and Fanshen about her path to becoming an on set photographer and the lessons she’s learned along the way.
TRANSCRIPT:
Fanshen Cox (00:11):
Hey, welcome back to Sista Brunch with me, Fanshen Cox.
Anya Adams (00:15):
And me, Anya Adams.
Fanshen Cox (00:17):
Sista Brunch is a podcast about Black women plus thriving and thriving in media, entertainment, and the arts. We cannot wait to share more stories with you over the next few weeks.
Anya Adams (00:28):
Let's do it. I am so excited about today's guest. Her name is Anne Marie Fox. Just a little bit about Anne Marie, she is a prolific and versatile photographer specializing in portraiture, film, and television unit stills. After graduating from Columbia University, she studied at the International Center of Photography in New York City. She built her portfolio shooting images for travel and fashion magazines before getting her film break on Kenneth Branagh's Frankenstein. Whoop whoop. Since then, she's been the still photographer on films like Dallas Buyers Club, Wild, and TV shows like HBO's Insecure, and also a really cool show that's coming out very soon called A League of Their Own, which I just did and that's how we met. Amazing.
Anne Marie Fox (01:20):
A Black lady sketch show.
Fanshen Cox (01:21):
Oh, also a Black lady sketch show.
Anya Adams (01:22):
And a black lady sketch show, yes.
Fanshen Cox (01:23):
Nice.
Anya Adams (01:24):
She's a native of Southern California. Whoop whoop. She's a member of the IATSE Local 600 Cinematographers Guild. We just really want to welcome you, Anne. We are so excited to talk about your work, what you do, how you got to where you are. We're just really looking forward to learning all about you. So welcome on the Sista Brunch.
Fanshen Cox (01:39):
Welcome to the Sista Brunch, Anne Marie.
Anne Marie Fox (01:44):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for having me. It's such an honor to be at the brunch with you ladies. Anya, I am so happy that you came on board [inaudible 00:01:54] A League of Their Own. At the end of the show, you were the highlight. You really were the perfect director to show up at the end after all the drama with the potential strike and all the set issues-
Anya Adams (02:08):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (02:08):
... and all the rain. The rain in Pittsburgh-
Anya Adams (02:11):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (02:11):
... that we were like, "Oh, my God, we're shooting outside" and they were like, "It's like gale winds and rain and everything." It was like a nightmare. So when you got there, it was perfect. You have such a wonderful vivacity and-
Anya Adams (02:25):
Thank you.
Anne Marie Fox (02:26):
... obvious talent, but also very skilled and preparedness when you come on set. I can tell you this personally from perspective of the crew, they were so happy that we had you there because they were like, "Oh, God, we're getting through the show."
Anya Adams (02:42):
Oh, yeah.
Anne Marie Fox (02:42):
Because previously, it was like, "Oh, my God.
Anya Adams (02:46):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (02:46):
We're not prepared." So when you showed up, it was really a blessing. I just love that your energy and you're just so wonderful and outspoken. That was-
Anya Adams (02:58):
Anne Marie, Anne Marie, this is about you.
Anne Marie Fox (03:00):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Anya Adams (03:01):
You got to stop, girl.
Anne Marie Fox (03:03):
Well, [crosstalk 00:03:03].
Fanshen Cox (03:03):
I'm loving this Anya love fest.
Anya Adams (03:04):
[crosstalk 00:03:04]. Let me tell you something. Coming to set and seeing a Black, female, on-set-
Fanshen Cox (03:11):
Yes.
Anya Adams (03:11):
... photographer, never, ever.
Anne Marie Fox (03:18):
Really?
Anya Adams (03:19):
[crosstalk 00:03:19] since 2000, 2000.
Fanshen Cox (03:19):
Not once [crosstalk 00:03:19] Anya.
Anne Marie Fox (03:19):
Really?
Anya Adams (03:19):
21 years, I have never worked with a Black female still photographer.
Fanshen Cox (03:23):
My goodness.
Anne Marie Fox (03:25):
Thank you for saying that. I feel that boosts my morale a lot because I was a born photographer. I think we had a conversation on the baseball field one day and I was like, "Oh, I was born with the eye" and you were like, "That's awesome." It's really true. God blessed me with this eye although I struggled for years to find my calling, but I was always taking photos. But ironically, I never even thought this is my destiny. I just thought this is my pleasure. This is where I find my own personal means of communication.
Fanshen Cox (04:02):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (04:04):
Then throughout the years, after going through college and everything, I finally realized when people started telling me at ICP, International Center of Photography, you have an eye. You have a gift and you should pursue this as a career. Because I wanted to be a writer, and I still want to be a writer.
Fanshen Cox (04:23):
Oh, okay.
Anne Marie Fox (04:24):
I have so many stories and [crosstalk 00:04:24].
Fanshen Cox (04:24):
Good.
Anne Marie Fox (04:24):
Yeah, I have so many stories [crosstalk 00:04:29]-
Fanshen Cox (04:28):
Put it out there, sister. Put it out there. Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (04:29):
... and that's my act three. But right now, when I saw you and you were so inquisitive about who I am as a Black woman on set, Anya, I was so happy that I got to express the little bits and pieces of who I am and how I got there and how you saw me, how we met on the set because of the passion and the heritage and the destiny. I feel that if anyone has any dream or any proclivity to a certain art form, they should pursue that. Because I spent many years wondering like, "What's going to come of me? How am I going to put my stamp on the world? How am I going to leave a legacy? What talents do I have? How can I implement those talents?" When I decided after doing Frankenstein in 1994-
Fanshen Cox (05:30):
Wait, wait, wait, Anne Marie. Go back a little bit because you can't just be like, "After I worked with Kenneth Branagh..." How did you get to that job? But also, thank you for sharing about that importance of going from something that you love doing, but people telling you you have a gift for it that you can actually turn into a job. So once you went from knowing it was just something you loved to actually being professional and getting paid for it, what was that moment?
Anne Marie Fox (06:00):
Well, it's a personal story because I was dating an actor at the time who was a producer on the Kenneth Branagh project. It was Francis Ford Coppola production as well. We had a breakup. We were broken up for two years and my ex was like, "I want you back." I was like, "Well, you're going to have to fight for me."
Fanshen Cox (06:23):
Okay.
Anne Marie Fox (06:23):
He's like, "Well, how can I get her back?" So he appealed to me through my photography. He was like, "Come to London." I was living in Paris at the time. He's like, "It's only an hour flight. Just come to London. Do this job. We'll pay you well-
Fanshen Cox (06:40):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (06:40):
... and you'll experience this whole another realm, this very specialized career as a photographer." I was like, "Why not?" I know he wants me back and everything, but I was like, "Photography involved? Okay, I'm there." So without revealing my ex's name because he's quite famous-
Fanshen Cox (07:00):
Look, wait a minute.
Anne Marie Fox (07:01):
... [crosstalk 00:07:01].
Fanshen Cox (07:01):
Okay. Well, when we turn this off, we need to know, but go ahead.
Anne Marie Fox (07:06):
I will tell you later. He's world famous and he was wonderful to approach me in that respect about my art because I was struggling still. I was fledgling. I was in Milan, living in Italy at the time before I moved to Paris working on my portfolio after college and after ICP. It was an opportunity for me to showcase my talent.
Fanshen Cox (07:34):
Did he say you are going to be the on-set photographer on this Kenneth Branagh film?
Anne Marie Fox (07:38):
I actually wasn't the on-set photographer because it was a Sony production, but he hired me through his production company, which was involved in the production. He hired me to shoot his prosthetics,-
Anya Adams (07:51):
Oh, wow.
Anne Marie Fox (07:53):
... the transformation of his character.
Fanshen Cox (07:55):
Okay.
Anne Marie Fox (07:55):
It was pretty extensive. He was becoming the actor and turning into Frankenstein.
Fanshen Cox (08:02):
Oh, I think we might be able to guess who this is.
Anne Marie Fox (08:04):
So it was basically getting up at 4:00 AM.
Fanshen Cox (08:05):
Okay. Sorry.
Anne Marie Fox (08:06):
I think you could guess if you just Google-
Fanshen Cox (08:08):
Frankenstein.
Anne Marie Fox (08:09):
... Frankenstein, Mary Shelley, yeah.
Anya Adams (08:13):
[crosstalk 00:08:13].
Fanshen Cox (08:13):
[crosstalk 00:08:13]. All right.
Anne Marie Fox (08:13):
You'll know and I think-
Anya Adams (08:14):
[crosstalk 00:08:14].
Anne Marie Fox (08:14):
... all us Black girls know.
Fanshen Cox (08:16):
Yes. So he brought you on to actually photograph him and the prosthetics process.
Anne Marie Fox (08:22):
Yes, and that was a daily thing. So I basically was on set for eight months.
Fanshen Cox (08:26):
Wow.
Anne Marie Fox (08:27):
Yeah. It was really intense and it trained me to be disciplined and not to complain about getting up at five o'clock in the morning and going to a set and taking photos, which I love, but it was really long hours. So that was my first experience and I think that got into my blood a little bit, because it was like, "Oh, this is how movies are made." So now when I go on sets and things in long hours despite the strike and all that stuff and the whole issues, it doesn't bother me. I feel like it's a commitment to a project, and the projects are three months, six months, four months, a year. But I feel like I developed and I learned so much discipline from that initial job because he's an expert. He's a very hard-working actor and he taught me the ropes, basically.
Anne Marie Fox (09:23):
He was like, "Get up. It's 4:00 AM. Get the fuck up. We got to be on set at five o'clock." The car's picking us up at this time. I was younger and I was like, "Okay, okay, anything to take photo." But I have to say that that experience honed my skills or my ability to really dedicate myself to the project at hand. So it doesn't matter, A League of Their Own, we had long hours. That's not an issue for me to get up in the morning, be on set, ready to shoot. It's habitual for me, you know?
Fanshen Cox (09:57):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (09:57):
So you learn as you go along that it's not for the fainthearted. People think like, "Oh, you're still photographer. You just take photos all day. How lucky you. That's so glamorous and whatever." There's so much involved. You have to be really on a regimen. You have to go to work, do your job, be alert, take the best images you can, try to get access, respect the talent. There's a lot of egos and a lot of sensitivity involved.
Anya Adams (10:36):
This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. Stay tuned for more of our conversation with unit still photographer, Anne Marie Fox.
Fanshen Cox (11:03):
And we are back. Here's more of our conversation with Anne Marie Fox.
Anya Adams (11:14):
There is a very specific skill, I think you as a stills photographer need to have coming into a group of people that are working to do one thing. Everybody on the crew is working to accomplish the show. Your job is not that, and that is-
Fanshen Cox (11:30):
Right.
Anya Adams (11:30):
... an interesting dynamic because you also have to work within this group to get what you need. I don't think there's anyone else on set that is not working towards the execution of the production. Can you talk a little bit about how do you-
Fanshen Cox (11:45):
Good point. I'll add to that question. Why do we have a set photographer? What happens with the pictures you take?
Anne Marie Fox (11:56):
Well, I can answer your question firsthand. The still photographer is there to not only document and replicate what's being filmed for the studios so that they have a still image of every scene, ideally, given access. I also just think out of the box a lot and I do a lot of behind the scenes as well because I want to also, when I present my imagery, my media to the studios, I want them to feel like they're actually on set.
Anya Adams (12:29):
Love it.
Anne Marie Fox (12:30):
And they love that. Their like, "Oh, my God. I actually feel like I'm all on set with you. I see the process in action." The way I shoot is I'll take blocks of time. I'll shoot with the scene and then I'll walk away and I'll shoot behind the scenes, but I make it blocks so that when they're viewing it, it almost is like-
Anya Adams (12:50):
Oh, interesting.
Fanshen Cox (12:51):
Wonderful. Oh, wow.
Anne Marie Fox (12:52):
... a film of stills. So that's how I approach the work because that's how the days go. That's how the days present themselves to me. I always have to have my eyes on. I'm an observer basically. As a still photographer, you're basically observing to capture the actual scenes that are being filmed within my access, ability to achieve access, but then also when I don't have access, I will go off on my own and shoot the behind the scenes or I'll just wander off or just find some other beautiful image to capture because that process, too, I think, [inaudible 00:13:30] appreciate knowing what it looks like to be... Because they're stuck in an office. They're at home and remotely these days and they appreciate knowing like, "Oh, my God. Okay, we have a great block of stills. She got that scene." But then obviously, if I don't get another scene, I'm not going to stop working. I'm still going to go out and take behind the scenes stuff because I want them to see, this is my reality and I'm sharing the reality with you.
Anne Marie Fox (13:59):
When they get the media on a day to day basis, they're just like, "Oh, my God. This is wonderful. We have this. We have that." Then they get to a frame 300,000 or whatever and they're like, "Oh, great. She's back on set and she's doing stills again." I shoot as much as I can. I try to deal about coverage. I do things with the actors. If they're accommodating, I can get some nice little stuff with them on their own, and then I go back to doing behind the scenes because I'm there all day and I don't like sitting around idle. Photography is my passion, so I'm not going to sit there and be like, "Oh, okay. Well, I'm just going to go to crafty now."
Anya Adams (14:38):
I love that, but I want to know how you navigate that world because you're stepping into a space that, again, you are not working the same direction as everyone. A lot of times, I see the still photographer has to negotiate with the A camera operator to get up by camera to be able to get good pictures. What is your process when you come on to set in terms of creating a space for yourself for you to be able to work? Do you know what I'm saying?
Anne Marie Fox (15:04):
Well, I think that's why I think it's a very people person-oriented career. You have to have good people skills. I always try to ingratiate myself with the camera department. We are under the same umbrella of Local 600. Some camera operators are a little bit territorial and I have to respect that because their job is obviously more important and crucial to the filmmaking than mine is. I have to be very inventive about not just friendly and making sure that people know that I'm there to do a job.
Anya Adams (15:38):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (15:38):
That's also important to sell the show because stills, believe it or not, and no one ever thinks about this, the still imagery-
Anya Adams (15:49):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (15:49):
... is the first image you see before the show comes out.
Fanshen Cox (15:51):
That's my point. Absolutely.
Anne Marie Fox (15:52):
So I have to make sure-
Fanshen Cox (15:55):
Absolutely.
Anne Marie Fox (15:55):
... that I'm accomplishing my goals for the studio without being obnoxious.
Fanshen Cox (16:00):
Yeah.
Anne Marie Fox (16:04):
I don't have to get every scene, but I have to get the crucial scenes. When I have an opportunity to do it, I have to get in there and be discreet as possible, fly on the wall concept and also just make sure that the camera department is comfortable with me. I think I'm pretty easy-going and down low and not too aggressive. I'm not like, "Hey, get out of the way." I really try to slip in there and try to find a spot, but the thing is I need to also have enough of a space to get a really crisp, clean, awesome image. That doesn't mean me standing on one leg, and sometimes it becomes an uncomfortable situation if the camera department, the A or B or C or D camera operators are like, "I'm territorial. Get out of the way." I have a job to do as well.
Fanshen Cox (17:00):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (17:00):
So I have to be more accommodating in terms of personality and graciousness and that's fine because that's what it's... Because I'm here to please people. I just want everyone to get a product that they can use to sell the show through my eyes, but a beautiful image. I want to give the studio options. I want to give them options. So I try my best, but I also know when to step back and get off set and walk away and take a break and let the camera department have their space. But it's not easy always. It depends on the camera department.
Fanshen Cox (17:39):
I just wanted our listeners, those who aren't familiar with this role or being on a set for that matter, of how integral this is especially to the final product. Anytime you see-
Anne Marie Fox (17:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Fanshen Cox (17:53):
... a poster for a film or a-
Anne Marie Fox (17:55):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (17:56):
... TV show or anything, that is the still photographer that took that.
Anne Marie Fox (18:00):
Or it's inspired by an image that the still photographer took and maybe the studios go and do a gallery shoot.
Fanshen Cox (18:06):
Sure.
Anne Marie Fox (18:07):
On this particular show that we did, Anya, Amazon was like, "We want you to do the gallery" and I was like, "Wow, impressive." So we took two days to shoot all of the lead actresses on a site and they were very dedicated to that. Our producer, photo producer flew out from New York and she made it happen. [Rachel 00:18:25] [inaudible 00:18:26], she's amazing. She's such a baller.
Anya Adams (18:28):
Nice.
Anne Marie Fox (18:28):
I love her. She really made it happen, but basically for me, it was just another aspect of photography so it wasn't like I was like, "Oh, my God. I can't do studio work," because that's actually the really easy for me because I don't have to worry about access and-
Anya Adams (18:47):
Lighting.
Anne Marie Fox (18:47):
... stepping on people's toes and oh, my God, people crossing the frigging frame and all this stuff. It was very controlled environment, so I love doing gallery work.
Anya Adams (18:57):
Nice.
Anne Marie Fox (18:57):
That's awesome. Amazon gave me that opportunity on this show. I think that also for other photographers to be aware of is that your role, you have to be so adaptable. You can't be like, "This is where I'm going to be and this is what it's all about." You have to think outside of the box and also just think about the artistry of the photography. So if you can't get access to a particular scene, go do some still lives. Shoot like the little Coca-Cola bottle or the baseball in someone's hand or something that's still emblematic of the show.
Anya Adams (19:43):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (19:43):
Don't stop shooting. Don't be idle. Don't sit around on an apple box thinking that there's not anything for you to do because you don't have access to a particular scene. I can't speak for others, but I go into a set and there's a bevy of photo opportunities. You want to get what the studio requires and needs and demands. On this show, they didn't even give me a list.
Fanshen Cox (20:09):
They just knew you. They're like, "She's got this."
Anne Marie Fox (20:10):
They were just like, "Go do your thing." Because I worked with Amazon six times before, so they know my work, so they know they're going to get everything and more than they could possibly want. It's not a lazy job. It's not for the faint of heart in terms of like, "Oh, I can't get access and now I'm going to go sulk in the corner." Fuck that. You have to just go find other images. In the times that you don't have access to a set or whatever for whatever reason, there's other opportunities to capture the essence of the show.
Fanshen Cox (20:43):
I love it.
Anya Adams (20:43):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (20:44):
Those images might come in really handy down the line for the studio when they're like, "Oh, we weren't even thinking about this sort of image, but here it is." We can use that image to create a poster image or a key art idea or something. You have to work within your boundaries, but also be inventive and also be creative and not step on toes and let people know that also, you're there for them. For Anya, you know this about me. I want to honor the actors. I want them to feel that they're being documented even when they're... I started from an acting career-
Anya Adams (21:28):
I saw some of those photos online.
Anne Marie Fox (21:30):
... back in the '80s, which wasn't so great.
Anya Adams (21:33):
Yeah.
Anne Marie Fox (21:34):
Yeah, but it wasn't so great for Black actresses in the '80s. So I gave up that career because I was like, "I don't think I'm going to leave that big of a legacy if I can pursue this career," in the times. Maybe now, it's much better, but at the time, there was The Cosby Show. I don't even know what else there was.
Fanshen Cox (21:54):
Slim pickings for Black [crosstalk 00:21:54].
Anne Marie Fox (21:54):
There wasn't much. It was slim pickings back then. Lisa Bonet got all the roles and I was happy for her, but I was like, "I don't want to be the actress doing some crazy shit that nobody ever sees. Then I had this talent as this photographer and I was like, "Well, let me pursue that."
Fanshen Cox (22:17):
Well, so Anne Marie, I want to actually, speaking of being a Black actor and now fortunately, we're finally starting to talk about lighting for Black actors in all of our various hues, would you talk about what that has meant for you?
Anne Marie Fox (22:35):
Oh, my God. I have great insight for you. I worked on several films, even Insecure and all of that where they have different shades of brown and white and just complexions. What I do is I set up my cameras in a mid-range to accommodate the scope of color spectrum so that everybody looks right. Because I can't control the lighting, but I can control if something's underexposed and I don't want my people,-
Fanshen Cox (23:13):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (23:13):
... so to speak, to come out looking darker than they are or lighter than they are. I want them to look authentic. This is a tricky conversation or tricky way of discussing it because I don't want to sound racist or anything or I'm biased, but I always refer to the darker skin tone to get the right lighting tone.
Fanshen Cox (23:39):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (23:40):
Because we've heard it, we've seen it in movies a million-
Anya Adams (23:43):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (23:43):
... times where it's like, "I can barely see that person," and you can't do that. You have to learn how your camera works.
Fanshen Cox (23:50):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (23:50):
That's another technical aspect of the career is you have to know how to set up your camera settings so that people are balanced.
Fanshen Cox (23:59):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (23:59):
So you find a mid-range. I think a lot of photographers don't think about this, but it's doable. You find a mid-range in the color spectrum and the lighting and the exposure so that everybody looks authentic-
Fanshen Cox (24:14):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (24:15):
... as they should look. You can't just shoot it for a light-skinned person.
Fanshen Cox (24:19):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (24:20):
You can't just shoot it for a dark-skinned person because everyone has to look like they're in the same... if there's two different nationalities in the frame. I have to do that. That's another aspect of the job. You have to know your cameras. You have to know how to work exposure. You have to also be able to go online at the end of the day, which I do every day. I do my editing at the end of every shoot day. Even if we shoot 14 hours, I go home and I do my edit for two, three hours. I do it every single day, every night after a wrap because I want the studio to get their media the next morning.
Anne Marie Fox (24:56):
I don't wait two weeks like some photographers do. I also do that because I don't want that phone call from the studio like, "Where's my media?" I just add those two or three days onto my work schedule and I get it done. So in the morning, I can wake up and go back to set with fresh eyes and knowing that I've completed my work for the previous day, but I also set up my camera. Also, when I'm editing at night, I can do a little highlighting or play with a little... I don't do a lot of Photoshopping at all. It doesn't require that because the lighting's so beautiful on set. We have great DPs. But if the lighting's a little bit off, I'll push a little highlight here to make an actress look a little brighter like how I saw her if it's a little bit underexposed.
Anne Marie Fox (25:43):
That's what I feel is my responsibility as a photographer too, to make the actors, the talent look their best. I'm not going to present anything to a studio where anyone looks compromised and not looking their best because the studios, I don't know who their editors are. I don't know if they're conscientious about that stuff as much as I am, because I'm a stickler for perfection. It's just for me, part of the job and also part of my reputation to present the best image of the talent.
Anya Adams (26:16):
I feel like what is standard for you is definitely not standard for most on-set photographers and your standard for yourself is so much higher. Again, I would say, I take a moment to just acknowledge how hard Black women work in this world in all jobs. Their baseline is so much higher than the average person. You just have to do better.
Fanshen Cox (26:46):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (26:47):
Well, I can tell you this, Anya. Lee Daniels gave me my first big break because-
Anya Adams (26:54):
Oh, wow.
Anne Marie Fox (26:54):
... he hired me on four films starting with Tennessee. Then I did Precious and I did The Butler and I did Paperboy with him. Before he ever saw my photography, he hired me. Then I did a whole movie and he was like, "Hey, I haven't even seen your photography. I don't even know if you're good or bad." He goes, but then throughout the years, he said to me, he goes, "You know what? In order for you to make a difference and to make a name for yourself in this career, you're going to have to shoot multiple images. Don't be lazy," he told me. And he goes, "Shoot to your heart's desire." He goes, "And just make sure that you have more than they could ever-
Fanshen Cox (27:33):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (27:34):
... want or expect from you." That has stuck with me throughout the years because it's true. That's why HBO loves me. They're like, "We have so much volume of photography. We don't even know what to do with it."
Fanshen Cox (27:52):
Hey, it's Fanshen, and you're listening to Sista Brunch. We'll be right back. If you haven't already, check us out on Twitter @SistaBrunch, on Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast. You talked about your third chapter and we are all about you doing whatever it is you want to do in your third chapter, but please also, can you teach?
Anne Marie Fox (28:17):
Oh, yeah.
Fanshen Cox (28:17):
Because we need you. As Anya said, you're the only one she's ever met in this incredible career she has. I've certainly never met any others. What a gift you are-
Anya Adams (28:31):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (28:32):
... to even let us know we can do this, let alone to tell us how. I hope you will add that into your resume at some point, because I feel like you would just be an incredible-
Anya Adams (28:47):
I agree.
Fanshen Cox (28:47):
... teacher-
Anne Marie Fox (28:49):
You're lovely to say that.
Fanshen Cox (28:50):
... and inspiration.
Anne Marie Fox (28:50):
Well, thank you so much. I love to share the wealth. My real passion is also, I love seeing people succeed.
Fanshen Cox (29:01):
Yes.
Anne Marie Fox (29:02):
I had my struggles and I've had doors locked in my face. I want to say this, that perseverance in this career particularly, it's the only way you're going to succeed. You cannot give up. You cannot give up because I had so many people... When I started, I looked out for mentors. I was looking for mentors. I found one,-
Fanshen Cox (29:31):
Okay.
Anne Marie Fox (29:31):
... Frank Masi, who does all the big blockbuster films. He was so lovely to me. I met him in New Orleans on a show and he's like, "I see that you're new in the union and you're a new photographer." He didn't know if I was Black or White, but we had dinner. He took me out for this really nice dinner. We spoke and he made sure that I knew the ropes and what my kit fee should be. I was obviously undercharging myself and he was like, "Don't do that." Because I was asking $50 a day for kit and he was like, "It's $250." He is like, "You're making us look bad. Stop it." He taught me things like that. I was all like, "Oh, my God. I had no idea," because he was like, "Of course you had no idea because the producer's not going to tell you that." He goes, "But I'm here to tell you that, that's why we're having dinner because I want you to know now that you're in the union, these are the things that you should be checking off in your box for your deals."
Anne Marie Fox (30:30):
We're still good friends to this day. We spoke the other day. He's such a great support system for me. He's one of the top still photographers. Meanwhile, I reached out to other still photographers who I admired their work and they told me that I was barking at the wrong tree and to maybe give up.
Anya Adams (30:51):
Wow.
Anne Marie Fox (30:52):
That was really upsetting back in the day when I was trying to get work. I reached out to certain photographers that I admired their work and I thought, "Oh, do you have any pieces of advice?" And they're like, "Black female still photographer? I don't think so." There's this other woman and she's mixed race as well. So we're the only two Black females still photographers in the union.
Fanshen Cox (31:22):
Wow.
Anne Marie Fox (31:22):
My union rep called me a couple years ago and said, "Listen, I want you to know that you broke the glass ceiling." I was like, "What are you talking about?" She's like, "You and Nicola Goode are the only two female Black still photographers in the union." With the men,-
Fanshen Cox (31:38):
Wow.
Anne Marie Fox (31:39):
... there's only five of us. There's only five of us.
Fanshen Cox (31:41):
In the union.
Anne Marie Fox (31:41):
There's three-
Anya Adams (31:43):
How many still photographers are in the union?
Anne Marie Fox (31:45):
1,500, but only maybe 500 work.
Anya Adams (31:50):
Damn, 500. Oh, wow.
Anne Marie Fox (31:53):
Yeah. There's 500-
Anya Adams (31:54):
Wow.
Anne Marie Fox (31:55):
... of us that are actually active, but there's 1,500 on the roster.
Fanshen Cox (31:58):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (31:59):
Then there's five Blacks, three Black guys and me and Nicola Goode. It's a pity because I don't know if our community or our culture is not aware that this job exists, especially if they're photographers or I don't know if they just haven't been given access to the opportunity.
Fanshen Cox (32:19):
Listen, Anne Marie, we about-
Anya Adams (32:21):
That's right.
Fanshen Cox (32:21):
... to use you to tell so many Black women and others.
Anne Marie Fox (32:26):
Right. Right.
Fanshen Cox (32:27):
Really, it is.
Anya Adams (32:28):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (32:28):
This is exactly why we do Sista Brunch, to say, these are jobs that-
Anya Adams (32:32):
That you can do.
Fanshen Cox (32:32):
... you didn't know are out here.
Anya Adams (32:35):
Yes.
Fanshen Cox (32:35):
... and that you could do.
Anne Marie Fox (32:36):
And they're very high-paying jobs and they're very-
Anya Adams (32:39):
You travel.
Anne Marie Fox (32:39):
I have a pension. I have medical. I have a great income.
Fanshen Cox (32:42):
Speaking of that,-
Anne Marie Fox (32:43):
You get to travel.
Fanshen Cox (32:44):
... since you're going there, would you be willing to tell us a salary range?
Anne Marie Fox (32:48):
Yes. Yes. Well, right now, the range for stills is there's two different categories. You can get higher, I guess, in the infancy of a career like the still rate, which is still decent, or you can get the portrait rate, which is if you're shooting actors and shooting any A-list actor, it's considered a portrait rate. So the portrait rate right now is 70, what is it? It's 74-
Anya Adams (33:15):
An hour?
Anne Marie Fox (33:16):
... 93, something like that an hour, and I ask for 75 because I'm like, "I can't be bothered with [crosstalk 00:33:22]-
Fanshen Cox (33:22):
Calculating all of that. Right, right.
Anne Marie Fox (33:25):
... and shit. The kit rental is-
Anya Adams (33:27):
Wow.
Anne Marie Fox (33:27):
... anywhere from 250 to 300 per day. Then distant hire, there's all that other stuff that goes in with housing and car rentals and things like that. But basically, the rate, it's 73-94, I believe. It's great if you have a director or whatever to hire you on when they're working. Some still photographers are tight with actors, A-list actors. They're like, "I want Frank Masi, for instance." Frank Masi does all of The Rock and he does all those big A-list actors jobs because he's created a relationship with them. So they always make sure that he gets hired. They ask for him. But the other route is you have to nurture and develop relationships with the photo producers and editors of the studios, and that is what I decided a few years ago. I was like, "I love that I get to work with Jean-Marc-
Anya Adams (34:20):
Right.
Anne Marie Fox (34:21):
... and Lee Daniels, but they're not always working.
Fanshen Cox (34:23):
Right.
Anya Adams (34:23):
Yeah.
Anne Marie Fox (34:24):
It did not happen overnight.
Fanshen Cox (34:31):
We do have to wrap up, but I was going to ask, how can we support you in the future? We're so grateful to you. We're so grateful to know what you do and that you do it. How can our listeners support you? Do you have Instagram? Should we follow you? How can we support you? And thank you.
Anne Marie Fox (34:48):
Yeah. Instagram would be great. I have @annemariefoxphotography on Instagram and @annemariefoxjournals, which is my -
Anya Adams (34:57):
Cool.
Anne Marie Fox (34:57):
... diary of sorts,-
Fanshen Cox (34:59):
Wonderful.
Anne Marie Fox (34:59):
... just my daily experience. But if they were to just follow me and like my images, that would be helpful. I've got 12,000 followers now.
Fanshen Cox (35:09):
Nice.
Anne Marie Fox (35:11):
But it would be nice just to put the word out. Then I have a couple of fan base people that are like, "Oh, yeah."
Anya Adams (35:17):
[crosstalk 00:35:17].
Anne Marie Fox (35:17):
[crosstalk 00:35:17] mention in that-
Fanshen Cox (35:18):
We're on that list now too. We are now on that fan base.
Anne Marie Fox (35:21):
Yes.
Anya Adams (35:22):
Anne Marie, thank you so much.
Fanshen Cox (35:24):
Thank you, Anne Marie.
Anya Adams (35:33):
Well, that's the end of our interview. Thank you so much for listening to Sista Brunch with me, Anya Adams and my girl, Fanshen Cox. That was our conversation with Anne Marie Fox. Visit sistabrunch.com to find out more about her and how to support her upcoming projects.
Fanshen Cox (35:49):
Follow us on Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast. We are also on twitter @SistaBrunch and on Facebook at facebook.com/sistabrunchpodcast. Oh, also, also you all, please, please, please don't forget, subscribe to the podcast. Rate us. Review our show on iTunes once this show ends. Your support means everything. We love you all for real. Also interact with us. Send us an email. We're at sistabrunch@gmail.com. Send us an email. Let us know what kind of shows you want, what kind of questions you want us to ask our guests.
Anya Adams (36:24):
Our senior producer is Sonata Lee Narcisse. Our show producer is Brittany Turner. Our executive producer's Christabel Nsiah-Buadi. We acknowledge the land we record our podcast on is the original land of the Tongva people for those of us in Los Angeles. Can't wait to see you next time. Take care, everyone.