Tamar-kali: “A Closed Mouth Don’t Get Fed”

Episode Description:

Tamar-kali is a Brooklyn born and bred artist and second-generation musician with roots in the coastal Sea Islands of South Carolina. In 2017 she made her debut as a film composer, scoring Dee Rees Oscar-nominated MUDBOUND which garnered her the World Soundtrack Academy’s Discovery of the Year Award. In this episode, Fanshen talks to Tamar-kali about her musical influences, the challenges of being an independent artist and how she learned to advocate for herself.

TRANSCRIPT:

00:00:13:15 - 00:00:45:00

FANSHEN: Hi, Sista Brunch listeners, before we jump into this wonderful conversation with Tamar-kali, we wanted to let you know that we strive to produce this show with the highest quality possible for our audio. Unfortunately, we suffered some technical difficulties on our platform with this interview, so you may notice some sound issues, but please know that none of that takes away from Tamar-kali's brilliance. You do not want to miss the incredible insight that she shares. And thank you again so much for listening to Sista Brunch.

00:00:45:07 - 00:00:45:25

FANSHEN: Here we go.

00:00:53:08 - 00:01:25:00

FANSHEN: Welcome back to Sista Brunch, the podcast all about black women thriving in entertainment and media. And we are now in our fourth season. We encourage you to listen back to our previous guests on Apple or Spotify podcasts and also find ways to uplift and encourage these amazing women. And if you've got questions about the entertainment and media industries, we would love to hear your voice and your question. So now you can actually leave us a voicemail at 424-587-4870.  

00:01:25:08 - 00:01:55:14

FANSHEN: And we may just ask your question or even play your beautiful voice on a future episode. I'm your host, Fanshen Cox, and today's guest is Tamar-kali. Tamar-kali is a Brooklyn born and bred artist and a second generation musician with roots in the coastal Sea Islands of South Carolina. In 2017, we know y'all already know who she is because she made her debut as a film composer scoring DeeRees's, Oscar nominated Mudbound.

00:01:55:24 - 00:02:31:18

FANSHEN: And of course, that also garnered her lots of awards, including the World Soundtrack Academy's Discovery of the Year award, and was also classified by Indiewire as one of the 25 best film scores in the 21st century. Now, 2019 was a hallmark year for her as she debuted her first Symphonic commission and scored four films, three of which were featured at Sundance. And just this year Tamar-kali unveiled a digital short commission with L.A. Opera titled, "We Hold These Truths", featuring imagery directed by Dream Hampton.

00:02:31:20 - 00:02:33:04

FANSHEN: Welcome Tamar-kali.

00:02:33:06 - 00:02:34:23

TAMARKALI: It's a pleasure to be here.

00:02:34:26 - 00:02:58:27

FANSHEN: Yes, we are truly proud to have you on. We always like to start the podcast because this is really kind of an inspirational podcast for women who want to enter into the industry or also for those who have been here, but they don't know about different roles. So will you take us back to the beginning of how you ended up becoming first, obviously a musician and then a composer?

00:02:58:29 - 00:03:38:24

TAMARKALI: Well, it would start with my father. My father was a bass player and my first musical lessons were at home. There was, of course, just the ethnocultural traditions of spirituals and gospel and jazz, which I got to a little later. I was raised up Catholic. So my formative years singing in the world were done in a choral classical context, but there was always music at home. So in terms of, you know, singing out in a traditional or formalized environment, that was choral classical singing.

00:03:39:03 - 00:04:01:27

TAMARKALI: But of course there was music all around the house and parties from back when I was just in a forest of legs, you know, dancing with the adults at the parties and singing and, you know, or being put in the room with all the children, the children room, and then they'll bring you out to do a little dance and sing a little song and then throw you back in there.

00:04:02:02 - 00:04:07:24

FANSHEN: Do you have video of that? Because, you know, we would love to use that to promote this episode.

00:04:07:26 - 00:04:43:23

TAMARKALI: I have my father, bless him, after his passing, I realize he was like truly my archivist and my first fan. There's so much that I have to get things digitized. I mean, there is so much, you know, And he used to like we used to tease him because I remember there was there used to be a big technology electronics expo every year in New York at the Coliseum in Columbus Circle. And one year when they were introducing the karaoke machine in America, I sang, Let's get physical and my father would lock people in the car and play it for them. It was just so out of control.

00:04:43:25 - 00:04:45:25

FANSHEN: Wait. Now, did you. Did you have the headband?

00:04:46:00 - 00:05:18:24

TAMARKALI: Oh, no. But I did have a velour sweater, though and some corduroy. You know, so there is lots of footage, but it needs to be organized and digitized. And I don't think that I'm going to be doing it. So but yeah, it's start it started there. And so, I mean, the whole thing with the falling into film composition, it was really an artist to artist relationship. I had worked with Dee on her first feature film, which had no score. It was just all diegetic music. So needle drops, you know, source music and.

00:05:19:03 - 00:05:21:16

FANSHEN: Oh, wait, wait, sorry. You said diegetic.

00:05:22:01 - 00:05:34:09

TAMARKALI: Diegetic, d-i-e-g-e-t-i-c. So it refers to music in a film that is music that's happening in the world of the film. So if somebody is like listening to the radio in the film, that's diegetic.

00:05:34:11 - 00:05:36:04

FANSHEN: And I'm sorry, was that on Pariah?

00:05:36:06 - 00:06:21:02

TAMARKALI: Yes. So in Pariah, there's no score. All the music you hear is music that's happening in the world of the film. When she's got when she's at the strip club and that Kiya is playing when she goes to a show and I'm the artist that's playing. So I lent some songs to the soundtrack. And then I did a cover of the gossip for the end credits. That's how Dee and I met. Her cinematographer at the time, Bradford Young had done a film with my good friend James Spooner. A narrative feature after the documentary AfroPunk that James had done. So Bradford was very familiar with my music and a lot of my peers. And so he suggested me as one of the artists for music that she could use. And it ended up snowballing into me doing a cameo in the film, which was super cool.

00:06:21:04 - 00:06:46:21

FANSHEN: Wait, what? Okay, so, so I have to just quickly say to the Sista Brunch family of you all have not not only watched Pariah, but studied Pariah. This is a great, important independent film on a young woman's coming out and it's powerful. It should have done way more. I mean, she should have started off her Oscar career with that one. But what what do you play in the film?

00:06:46:25 - 00:07:18:12

TAMARKALI: I, myself, myself, she comes to a show, so it's super cool. And I can do that like I can. And we played live because I was just like, Girl, if you want this to be real, I got to play again. I. I can fake someone else, but I can't fake myself. I just have to do it. So that was a really good vibe. It was. It was totally cool. So that started off familiarity with each other. And from there we grew and she became familiar with my work, you know, my chamber ensemble, some music directing I was doing.

00:07:18:14 - 00:08:10:25

TAMARKALI: And eventually she said, You know, I'm working on this film on Bessie Smith and I want you to do the music. And I wasn't really clear. I thought maybe she wanted me to consult or something. And then it was like, no, I want you to write the score. And so it was an HBO film. Rachel Portman ended up doing the score, and I think she won an Emmy for, you know, legendary film score composer. It was one of those situations where I was like, you know, I don't have a reel, I haven't written a score before, you know, it's all good. What I did know is that I was a composer and that I had so much belief and trust in Dee's vision that, you know, if she says tag I'm it, then I'm it. And so the lesson we learned from Bessie was taken forward to Mudbound. And, you know, she's a very smart, strong and independent woman. And she made sure that she had say so I was the composer for Mudbound.

00:08:14:29 - 00:08:28:09

FANSHEN: This is Sista Brunch, the podcast by and about black women and gender expansive people thriving in entertainment and media. Stay tuned for more of our conversation with our guest, the melodious Brooklynite, Tamar-kali.  

00:08:42:03 - 00:08:46:04

FANSHEN: We're back and so excited to continue this conversation with Tamar-kali.

00:08:52:01 - 00:09:25:18

FANSHEN: I want to know a little bit about your background and your influences in music, because I've read that punk rock and hardcore are a big part of those influences. And I also know I heard you mention AfroPunk and this, as you know, I'm not I'm not telling you something you don't know. This is not entirely common and usual for black folks. So I'm wondering about did you get pushback when that was the kind of music you were listening to? And also was did you feel like the punk rock and hardcore communities were welcoming of you?

00:09:25:24 - 00:10:09:06

TAMARKALI: I would suggest that all your listeners watch the documentary AfroPunk, and they might be familiar with the festival, which is its own kind of animal at this point. If you want to see the community that that that whole cultural phenomenon was built on. You should watch AfroPunk. I mean, we don't really have a presence in AfroPunk current day, but that's the foundation. So you should really check that out. You know, I mean, it's very common. I mean, for people who are part of marginalized communities, be it be a black, be a woman, be a queer, whatever the case may be, there's a certain amount of pecking order and policing that happens because you live in a world that does not affirm your humanity on a regular basis.

00:10:09:08 - 00:10:39:22

TAMARKALI: So people are constantly wanting to pigeonhole you and be very reductive with your wholeness as a person. You know, like you can only do certain things. And, you know, especially here in America, where the foundation of rock and roll it was called race music in this country, because, you know, the roots of rock and roll is we can't have our white children listen to this black music. So to, you know, fast forward and then have black folks tell you that you're not black, It would be funny if it wasn't so damn tragic.

00:10:40:03 - 00:11:25:18

TAMARKALI: I'm grateful that I had parents that were just growing up an authentic human being. I was an only child as well. So a lot of my world was of my own imagination. And so I got very comfortable in that practice. So, you know, I never had I never really succumbed to peer pressure that was not of interest to me. I'm grateful that I had parents that really encouraged my authenticity. And my father had a range of music in the house, you know, and also I I'm of a certain age, so I grew up in a time where there was a minute where, like it wasn't like everybody had FM radio and and even in the early parts of FM radio, it was just like, so eclectic.

00:11:25:20 - 00:12:04:28

TAMARKALI: I mean, I'm you know, I remember like hearing Queen - Another One Bites the Dust on BLS and Toto it you know, because it was just about music and what was good music. And that was when back in the days you sold albums, you didn't just sell a plastic disc. It's like it was a different time, you know. And even when you think about early punk rock in New York and the whole Danceteria scene where hip hop and punk rock, it's like they were all outsiders. And so I have that's my legacy and I don't feel any ways about it. I just feel fortunate that I knew who came before me so I didn't have to question myself. I just knew it was a matter of me finding my people.

00:12:05:00 - 00:12:44:29

FANSHEN: I love it. We're dropping gems for our listeners because AfroPunk is also one of those documentaries that we get to see the ways that we don't have to be limited in who we are. And listen, we all know we still going to face discrimination. That's part of our lives. But to be able to live freely the way the subjects in that film do is beautiful. So I was really glad to see that and I was really glad to know that we have a black woman whose music and composing has that context because, you know, like it or not, Tamar-kali, you going to be pushing us into new experiences, right? And new music.

00:12:45:01 - 00:12:46:13

TAMARKALI: Hopefully I mean, you know, I'm open.

00:12:46:15 - 00:12:49:08

FANSHEN: I'm telling you, you don't have a choice. I'm telling you it is.

00:12:49:19 - 00:13:33:12

TAMARKALI: For me, whoever has ears to hear and a heart to feel it. That's that's all it requires. It's, you know, that's really the root of it. I'm very much centered in that, like the work is the way. It's not all the extras, the wrapping and the fixings. It's it's the heart of the thing. So, you know, I while I was trained as a choral classical singer, as a kid, it's like I found my voice in punk rock and hardcore. The reason I, I showed promise as a young person, you know, especially being a second generation musician, having the exposure and developing my ear with the oral traditions and, you know, my cultural musical traditions that are like oral tradition, you learn by ear and then having access to instruments at home.

00:13:33:28 - 00:14:04:15

TAMARKALI: But I decided pretty early that I wasn't going to do music because I still have that much societal pressure like that. It kind of felt like a fantasy, right? And then when it was clear after I did one year in a private university. Should have went to a CUNY, but I had to get out of the house. You know, I had. I had very my parents could be very overbearing, You know, raising up a child in eighties New York was a scary time, and I had to get up at the house. So I was like, you know, Brooklyn College is around the corner, but I got to get out here.

00:14:05:16 - 00:14:36:28

TAMARKALI: So I just did one year in a private university and I came out and it was just hilarious because I kept talking about how I wasn't going to do music. But by second semester I was like singing in coffeehouses. It was clear that I couldn't get away from it, even though I was trying. And so then when that became established, like my dad was like my first manager. So he would like he negotiated like my first session work, but then he was like, taking me to Long Island, to this shady agent that, you know, represented people for wedding bands.

00:14:37:00 - 00:14:39:14

TAMARKALI: And I was like, well, this is surely the place that I will die.

00:14:41:18 - 00:15:30:19

TAMARKALI: So, you know. Yeah, exactly. But because he was trying to show me like, there is a way for you to support yourself with this and but, and I had to kind of be like, but I'm an artist, Papi. I'm an artist, you know? And so we kind of split ways in that regard. And I found my way. And eventually they came to see what I was doing and had a lot of love and respect. You know, it was definitely a rough road. And I ended up, you know, coming from underneath their wings at that time because I had to establish myself authentically as an artist. I wasn't in it to just, you know, be a spectacle or as a means for a check like I have. I was compelled to express myself in very specific ways as a matter of of liberation and freedom for me.

00:15:31:17 - 00:15:57:16

FANSHEN: Oh! Love it. Love it. So we've touched on this a lot. And it really is meaningful that you had peers of black folks as you were coming up, you know, creatives around you that you could kind of stay in relationship with and eventually work with. What is it like now, now that you are your name is recognizable and you you know, you go to fancy parties for things.

00:15:57:28 - 00:15:58:13

TAMARKALI: Do I?

00:15:58:15 - 00:16:03:04

FANSHEN: I know you do. I know you do. And I will be calling you when I'm in New York to go to a fancy party with you.

00:16:03:12 - 00:16:21:13

FANSHEN: But yeah, so. So what? I'm assuming then, I mean, you grew up in New York. You had peers that were black and brown. And then I know from this industry, like kind of in some ways, the higher you get, the less color there is. And I'm wondering what is it, what is it like for you now?

00:16:21:16 - 00:16:59:24

TAMARKALI: It's so interesting because I'm a flower that bloomed in the shadows, you know what I'm saying? It's like I all all my development as an artist, my practice, it happened in the fringes. And so when the opportunity created, presented itself I had to move differently. But it wasn't against my conscious or my principles. It was just about some muscles that I needed to develop. I think that when you live such a high risk life as an independent artist in New York City and you're living like at or below the poverty line, it can be really hard to grit, you know what I mean? Like and cover the basics food and shelter.

00:17:00:03 - 00:17:30:15

TAMARKALI: So you're not always willing to take risks. And so what the things that shifted for me was when the Mudbound situation came about and I saw the energy that was pointed at this project, I understood that I had to strike when the iron was hot and that was the moment where I came out of my comfort zone and that was the moment where I found myself in unfamiliar territory. But it was just in that moment to create that transition.

00:17:30:23 - 00:18:01:08

TAMARKALI: I still live in a world that, you know, if we're honest about it, it's just highly curated because I've lived I've had this 20 plus career as an independent artist. You know, I'm still self-managed. I have an agent for film and TV and I have like a rep who negotiates like commissioning and classical works deals. But I'm still, you know, I'm the source of everything that I'm doing. And so my life pretty much looks the same. It's the same cast.

00:18:01:10 - 00:18:31:28

TAMARKALI: There's some new faces and now, you know, I'm not in landlord tenant court every other month or you know what I mean? Like, I'm just talking real talk, you know? Yes. You know, and and I know, you know, and I'm eating regularly and, you know, I'm not I'm not stressed. And I tell people, you know, it's like you pay your dues so that you could bust your behind to to to manifest and create the body of the work so that you can then rest on your laurels. So I'm in the thick of it.

00:18:32:00 - 00:18:57:14

TAMARKALI: I'm just trying to leave behind a legacy in my work so I can get to a point where I can say, okay, let me relax a little bit. But but, but, but, you know, it's on and cracking right now. That's that's where I'm at. So parties not so much I can clean up real good when I get ready. But most of the time I'm really trying to do this work. I'm trying to get it done because I am still my practice is very much that of an independent artist.

00:19:02:27 - 00:19:15:14

FANSHEN: Hi, it's Fanshen and you're listening to Sista Brunch. We'll be right back. And during this really quick music break, go ahead and follow us on Twitter if you're not already were @SistaBrunch and on Instagram @SistaBrunchPodcast.

00:19:22:03 - 00:19:25:02

TAMARKALI: This is Tamar-kali and you're listening to Sista Brunch.

00:19:26:12 - 00:19:43:13

FANSHEN: So this leads to a question that we always like to ask guests if you're uncomfortable with it. We understand, but we want to give our listeners a sense of what the salary ranges are for a composer and or musician. Everything kind of what should they expect to know?

00:19:45:24 - 00:20:17:07

TAMARKALI: See this is so hard because of course the first film I did haha, you know what I mean? Like I was up there with some chewing gum on toothpicks, you know, some dental floss, you know, like straight up, and we had to make it work. And so what changed for me is so this the first things first, I'm going to talk more about the steps than telling you about numbers. So the first thing was that was the moment where we there was a shoot that we were going to do for Mudbound.

00:20:17:09 - 00:20:50:19

TAMARKALI: I had to go to L.A. for it, and I felt the energy and I was like, okay, if I just let them fly me in and out for the shoot, I'm a fool. I'm standing on something. There's energy here. It's powerful. I need to make the transition into trying to develop a team for myself. My spouse at the time was in grad school getting their MSW. So when I tell you, you know what I'm saying? Like it was lean LEAN, you know, where we were living on my artist salary and he was doing some part time stuff.

00:20:50:21 - 00:21:20:27

TAMARKALI: So it was a scary time. So I had to have this face where I was like, okay, let me see. I got to get out there and I need to do some networking. So and what the beautiful thing about community is that there is reciprocation when you have good people in your life that you have cared for, they will care for you. So my L.A. people came through. I had a place to rest my head, so I was like, okay, I'm going to spend a week and then, "Closed mouth don't get fed."

00:21:20:29 - 00:21:52:06

TAMARKALI: I had to like, really learn how to ask. And that was a major thing for me. For a lot of us who have grown up working class or have people with Southern roots, you're so fearful. You're always worried about being in hock to someone, if not financially, spiritually or emotionally. And so it can be very difficult to ask. So one of the first things I did, people who had showed interest in my work and particularly this score, I gave them a call, Hey, I'm coming to L.A. Is there anyone I should meet? You know, I had to.

00:21:52:11 - 00:22:26:17

TAMARKALI: You have to find the language that works for yourself. You might not be able to say it like somebody else, but what I learned, I could say was, Hey, is there anyone you think I should meet? Like. And that opened up the door. Let me give you a list. Email all my agent friends and see if they can get a meeting with you. So you know what I mean? Like, so that's it started there. Then I was able to start with an agent. I found someone who was bright eyed, bushy tail. They felt really earnest and there was an interest and a desire there.

00:22:26:19 - 00:22:39:27

TAMARKALI: Like that's important. So I started there and then it was like, Well, you're going to need a publicist if you want people to know about this work. And then that gets tricky because you know that whole take money to make money and it's really frightening.

00:22:39:29 - 00:22:43:21

FANSHEN: Expensive, like once you're at that level and it's usually a retainer. Right?

00:22:44:00 - 00:23:15:23

TAMARKALI: And I have been taken in the past. I was real sore about it. But then I realized, okay, this, this risk is worth taking, you know, And I had to just believe in myself above all else. So I did what I needed to do to get the funding, you know? So from there it was like and, and part of when you know, when to throw something on it, it can't just be for anything. It's not an all the time type of scenario. But I saw the energy, the momentum, the impetus and the importance of this film. I was like, This is the one, okay, and this is going to open doors.

00:23:16:02 - 00:23:20:00

TAMARKALI: So five days in L.A. came back with an agent and a publicist.

00:23:21:19 - 00:23:34:17

FANSHEN: Yes. Okay. Now you're in the position of like negotiating your salary a little bit unlike before, where, you know, you get that first thing and you're like, I'll do it. Or with friends. You like whatever you can pay me. I'm a do this.

00:23:34:25 - 00:24:07:11

TAMARKALI: And guess what? Let me show you how to negotiate. I don't. My agent does it. But seriously, though, no, because let me tell you something. I am from Brooklyn and I have an edge. When It's time. But when it comes to this work that I love to do and I'm so blessed to do, I am a bleeding heart. I'm not saying that I fall for that "Oh it's for promotion." I know that because I got to eat. I live in New York City. The thing is, though, that I realized that my mastery is my craft and an agent's mastery is their craft.

00:24:07:18 - 00:24:29:03

TAMARKALI: That was the most important thing. Like, this year has been a really heavy year because a lot of things that spoke to my heart. But boundaries are important, and that's why it's so important to have representation. Because my agent, she gets it done. This is the she lives. Every morning is a good day for her to squeeze a lemon, you know, and.

00:24:29:06 - 00:24:38:07

FANSHEN: That's the hard conversation. When you're a creative, you don't want to have to be having the conversations about money, but you do need someone to be having that conversation.

00:24:38:09 - 00:24:51:16

TAMARKALI: Absolutely. And you need somebody who who is going to throw that ball places you never dreamed of. I still have fear attached. And that's why I have to be like, mind your business. You what I mean like because.

00:24:51:18 - 00:24:58:18

FANSHEN: She's not afraid. She knows she believes in you. So you go ahead and you keep making your work and you're creating.

00:24:58:20 - 00:25:27:21

TAMARKALI: Some of us who are really addicted to controlling everything, you should always be apprised and aware. You could never tap out on your existence and your bottom line, of course. But there are things that someone else is better at than I am. And I, of course, want them on my team and give them the space to do what they need to do. And that's that's the the most important thing. You need to be able to establish that they they're better at it than you.

00:25:27:27 - 00:26:05:10

FANSHEN: I love it. You met our whole Sista Brunch team when we first came on, and this is the same thing. We're all like, You know what? Each one of us has a strength, and we all have this goal of uplifting black women in the industry. But each one of us can kind of come together as a team for exactly those reasons. Now we just trying to, you know, we trying to up the money. So maybe we need an agent to also work on that. Can you tell us about mentors that you have? And then also included in that, especially if they're composer mentors, musician mentors, what makes a talented composer?

00:26:06:05 - 00:26:48:27

TAMARKALI: I don't particularly feel qualified to answer that per se, because and so this is part of it, and I know people are people are going to think like, Oh, this she's so full of it. But no, seriously, like, I think part of why I can survive and not lose my mind is to understand that it's all subjective. And that's why I stay in the space of just trying to create from my heart and people who can connect to that. We're good. Of course, certain people have certain aesthetic likes and there are things that are in the canon that we say this is, you know, an example of amazing composition, you know, and at the same time.

00:26:50:08 - 00:27:26:13

TAMARKALI: That could be so and it might not move everybody. So I feel like in terms of mentorship, what has been striking to me and what I have learned from. Is people who have been able to maintain their unique artistic voice and be authentic and make that the means like and be able to support themselves through it. You get what I mean. And I think that that's of most importance. And I'm not talking about putting the value on material or money because in some people they hear that and they think extreme.

00:27:27:04 - 00:28:01:11

TAMARKALI: I'm not talking an extreme. I'm talking sensible, rational, logical, moderate. You know, I mean, it's like anyone who's been able to have their dream, keep it and get it to a place where it worked for them, that's the type of mentorship that I'm interested in. Does that make sense? Because everybody needs different things. I don't need every single job out there. I want the jobs that are for me, that are coming to me, that are aligned with with what I'm trying to do that resonate with me.

00:28:01:13 - 00:28:30:10

TAMARKALI: Right? And it's like because I have this whole practice as an independent artist. I didn't go through conservatory, you know, I didn't go through university. So I never developed the muscle of write anything, any style, any time for any one. My art is so connected to my heart. So I'm looking at people who have that type of path and are able to support themselves, create sustainable, long lasting practice, and leave a legacy. Like, those are mentors to me.

00:28:30:22 - 00:28:37:06

FANSHEN: Oh, so you know you're going to be flooded on your socials with folks looking for you to be their mentor.

00:28:38:04 - 00:29:19:12

TAMARKALI: No, I mean, it's just about showing up, you know, like people I don't know watching how they move. If that gave me some knowledge and allowed me to understand a deeper truth about myself, then, you know, that's that's a way that you mentor. You know, I feel very fortunate to be in New York City, where there's so many artists all around you. And you know what I'm saying? From Toshi Reagon, Meshell Ndegeocello, Vernon Reid, like, you know, just being able to just be in a space and see all these folks and be around them and wax poetic with them and build friendships like, you know, I feel very lucky in that regard.

00:29:20:00 - 00:29:32:26

FANSHEN: All right. Tamar-kali, you are sitting down to an amazing Sista Brunch with a young Tamar-kali. What are you eating? What are you drinking? And what do you tell her?

00:29:33:01 - 00:29:47:11

TAMARKALI: If it's a young Tamar-kali, then we're at Caravan of Dreams on East sixth Street. Having a mixed baby green salad and a great tofu scramble with some tempeh bacon.

00:29:47:27 - 00:29:49:07

FANSHEN: Yes, to the vegans.

00:29:50:01 - 00:29:58:28

TAMARKALI: This is the nineties, and we're going to end with an amazing raw mango pie. I'm telling her.

00:30:00:20 - 00:30:32:20

TAMARKALI: To continue to trust her gut that she is loved and protected. And, you know, always keep it squeaky. I think that I have no regrets. But if I would change anything, it would just be to be more mindful of aligning my words with my actions sooner. You know, I mean, you're not going to be perfect, but to have that as like a focus. You know, like the Four Agreements, you know.

00:30:32:22 - 00:30:50:02

TAMARKALI: You know, like to if I could have started that practice in my twenties, I'm just curious because I really have no regrets. But curious as to how things may have shifted or looked. If I had that seed of wisdom, I was starting to exemplify that type of practice at a younger age.

00:30:52:23 - 00:31:11:05

FANSHEN: Thank you so much Tamar-kali. It's been wonderful to have you on. We love all that you do. We are here to support. We'll make sure that we share all the ways that our listeners can can support you also on social media, on projects that you have coming up. We're just honored to have you on.

00:31:11:07 - 00:31:17:18

TAMARKALI: It was a pleasure. Thank you so much. This is my moment of calm in a sea of a whole lot today.

00:31:28:14 - 00:32:05:14

FANSHEN: Thanks so much for listening to Sista Brunch, the podcast that brings you the stories of black women breaking barriers and bringing joy to the entertainment and media industries. Our mission at Sista Brunch is to highlight, celebrate and uplift artists and changemakers, while also in our small way, helping to change the systems that marginalizes us. As part of this mission, we're taking action to make our guest list more inclusive of black folks, of marginalized genders. If you would like to share your thoughts or suggestions or help support us in this area, please send us an email to SistaBrunchpodcast@gmail.com.

00:32:06:02 - 00:32:37:13

FANSHEN: This is our fourth season of Sista Brunch. You can read the transcript of this show and listen to all our previous episodes at SistaBrunch.com. We appreciate your support by subscribing to our podcast, leaving us a great review and sharing it with others. You can also follow and interact with us on Instagram at Sista Brunch Podcast and you can support the Sista Brunch podcast by subscribing, rating and reviewing our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify both, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

00:32:37:27 - 00:33:04:20

FANSHEN: Sista Brunch is brought to you by TruJuLo Productions. Our senior producer is Sonata LeeNarcisse. Our co-producer is Brittany Turner. Our associate producers are Farida Abdul-Wahab and Mimi Slater. Our executive producers are Cristabel Nsiah-Buadi and Anya Adams. We acknowledge that the land we record our podcast on is the original land of the Tongva and Chumash people. Can't wait to see you next time. Take care, everyone.