Natalie Jasmine Harris: Writer/Director

Episode Description:

Natalie Jasmine Harris is an award-winning Black queer filmmaker from Silver Spring, Maryland currently based in NYC.  Her work is centered around a mission to tell stories that capture coming-of-age experiences and reimagine liberation for marginalized communities.  PURE, Natalie's NYU thesis short film, received The Directors Guild of America's Student Film Award and was acquired by HBOMax. 

She is currently in development on a feature-length version of Pure, which she hopes to become her debut feature. The project was an SFFILM Rainin Screenwriting Grant recipient and was also selected for The Gotham Week Project Market, Outfest's Screenwriting Lab, Film Independent Fast Track, and The WIF x Sundance Financing Intensive. 

Natalie is a 2023 Film at Lincoln Center Artists Academy participant and was a 2022 Creative Culture Filmmaking Fellow at The Jacob Burns Film Center. Her work has been featured in Teen Vogue, THEM Magazine, Huffington Post, The Cut, NBC, and more. 

She is currently in post-production on a new short narrative film, GRACE, that reimagines queer Black girlhood in the 1950s and was shot on 16mm film by Tehillah de Castro. She is also working on a short documentary film supported by Traverse32, The Future of Film Is Female, and Outfest.

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Fanshen: Hey, Sista Brunch family, thank you so much for joining me again to share the stories [00:00:10] of another Black woman who is thriving in entertainment and media. I know you'll be so inspired by today's guest and when you are, go ahead [00:00:20] and leave us a nice review on Apple or Spotify, wherever you listen to this podcast, and follow our community on Instagram at Sista Brunch Podcast.[00:00:30] 

[00:00:30] This episode is being published in early 2024 and we have some really exciting events happening this year along with our amazing, powerful guests that you [00:00:40] will not want to miss. Instagram is the place to keep up with all that we have happening, so make sure you follow us over there. You can also sign up for our newsletter on our website, [00:00:50] SistaBrunch.

[00:00:50] com to stay updated. Now I have a little quick story for you. On November 23rd, and I looked it up, so it was [00:01:00] almost exactly to the date that I am recording this episode with our guest. On November 23rd, 2020, I got an email from my best friend, Tamika, [00:01:10] introducing me to a young filmmaker who had just graduated from NYU.

[00:01:15] I knew from that very first conversation that this was a filmmaker whose [00:01:20] projects had just begun. would align with everything that I believe in around impactful storytelling. And then a couple of years later, I receive a [00:01:30] crowdfunding email in my inbox. Now, as a development executive, I get a lot of these.

[00:01:34] And as a person who, you know, is really trying to uplift community, I do get a lot of these. But when I sign up. [00:01:40] I could not click the link to donate fast enough, and I have had the opportunity to meet our guest and see her grow and [00:01:50] thrive. We were at the Scout Film Festival together, one of my favorite film festivals.

[00:01:55] where she won an award that helped her with the film that we'll be talking [00:02:00] about, I think, a lot today. And that film has recently gotten to Sundance. And the film is Grace. And I am so very pleased to welcome [00:02:10] Natalie Jasmine Harris to Sista Brunch. 

[00:02:13] Natalie: Thank you so much for having me. I can't believe it.

[00:02:17] That was in 2020. [00:02:20] I was like, what 

[00:02:21] Fanshen: a journey. And so impressive that, that it was just that short time ago and here you are and you've been really going non stop [00:02:30] since then. 

[00:02:31] Natalie: Yeah. 

[00:02:32] Fanshen: Yeah, 

[00:02:33] Natalie: I really have. Yeah. Graduating into the pandemic didn't stop me. 

[00:02:39] Fanshen: It really didn't. [00:02:40] Right. I'm like, you know, lots of folks have taken breaks as they needed to, but you, you took that and you kept going with it.

[00:02:48] And it's amazing. And also we, [00:02:50] you know, I'm gonna put on my auntie hat and say, I hope you're getting lots of rest and that if you don't, if you're not after Sundance, cause obviously that's going to be very busy, [00:03:00] but that you deserve a break and some rest and some nap time and all of that. Um, thank 

[00:03:06] Natalie: you for that.

[00:03:06] I'm yeah, I'm trying to plan some kind of [00:03:10] like vacation or something afterwards to like debrief and decompress. 

[00:03:16] Fanshen: Yeah, I mean, especially because so, so, uh, we're, [00:03:20] we're recording this in December and, and Sundance is of course in, in January. And so you're going to be very busy while you're there. And then, [00:03:30] then you're going to get a lot of phone calls as soon as it's done, or even the day that, that the, uh, screen, the film screen.

[00:03:36] So, um, yeah, so just take permission, [00:03:40] know that you have permission to even tell folks, I'll talk to you in a couple of weeks. You know, I'm going to take a little time off. Good, good, good. All right. [00:03:50] So Natalie, um, we always start with the filmmaker's journey or the, our, our guests journey for how they ended up here today.

[00:03:59] Um, [00:04:00] so what has been your journey as far back as you want to take us? 

[00:04:04] Natalie: Sure. So I'm kind of that annoying person who knew what I wanted to [00:04:10] do for a very long time. I knew that I wanted to be a filmmaker, or I knew that I loved, you know, film and photography and just like [00:04:20] that medium, um, when I was in high school, really, honestly, when I was in middle school, but I didn't quite How did you get 

[00:04:27] Fanshen: exposed to it?

[00:04:28] Did you have someone [00:04:30] that was doing it in your family or? 

[00:04:33] Natalie: No one in my family. Um, the closest thing is that my mom and my grandma both worked in [00:04:40] journalism and news. Like my mom and my grandma worked at, I think like ABC or CBS, like while they lived in New York. Um, those jobs were accessible. [00:04:50] And I think, you know, Paid somewhat well for the time, uh, um, and so they had experience with like media, but no, nobody really knew anything about [00:05:00] photography or filmmaking in my family.

[00:05:01] Um, I just happened to go to a middle school where it was very, very small and they gave us like, um, like, like, [00:05:10] like, little flip cameras where we could make assignments for school on the flip camera. And we also got like MacBook pros to, um, to [00:05:20] do our work included. And so, and so we were able to like play with iMovie and use the flip cameras.

[00:05:27] And so that's kind of, you know, that's like, like for [00:05:30] me, that's kind of how I started learning how to edit the videos I made back then were all pretty much. Pretty cringy and probably awful looking back on it now, but, but it was fun. You know, [00:05:40] I enjoyed like expressing myself and having my friends express themselves, um, and learning the technology.

[00:05:46] But when I went to high school, that's really when I knew that I [00:05:50] wanted to do filmmaking and I started off by doing documentaries. I went to a very small boarding school for high school and I was there during [00:06:00] the start at the Black Lives Matter movement. Um, So I was one of only two black girls in my grade, and I remember just how I felt [00:06:10] learning about Trayvon Martin and so many other people who had lost their lives due to police brutality.

[00:06:17] And no one, like no one in my high school either [00:06:20] knew or cared, probably both. Um, they didn't care to know what was going on. And I just was so angry and [00:06:30] sad, and I felt confused and like helpless, and I didn't really know what to do. Yeah, I just remember feeling really hopeless and confused and [00:06:40] frustrated.

[00:06:40] Um, and so I turned to filmmaking and I would go to documentaries in D. C. when I could get away on the weekends from campus. And I'd bring my [00:06:50] camcorder with me and just start recording everything that I saw. Uh, The people I interviewed activists, I asked them what was happening and why they were there and [00:07:00] why we should care.

[00:07:01] Um, and I somehow got the courage to play my documentaries in front of our whole school at our morning meetings. [00:07:10] And I was really hoping to like, wake up all of the white students and to get them to care. Um, It didn't really work in that [00:07:20] moment, but I did learn just from that experience, like how powerful filmmaking could be and how storytelling can just help the [00:07:30] community.

[00:07:30] Um, and I posted my videos on YouTube and, and they ended up getting a lot of views like from the community and people, you know, wanted to see more. So I would go to more [00:07:40] protests or I would, you know, just travel and make documentaries when I was traveling and just. you know, I started, I started telling more stories on my own.

[00:07:47] I learned how to edit and film and [00:07:50] interview people. Um, so that was really how I got into filmmaking. 

[00:07:55] Fanshen: I love it. And, and I, I want to mention, because you talked about going into DC on [00:08:00] the weekends, um, and, and that you grew up in, in Maryland, right? 

[00:08:04] Natalie: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:08:05] Fanshen: Yeah. And, and, you know, that's another unique [00:08:10] aspect of your story, because, you know, and, and it's been, it's been true for many of our guests who didn't grow up with kind of this immediate access into [00:08:20] the industry or immediate access to it.

[00:08:21] to filmmaking. And I love that. I think I didn't know that you're, you're kind of like foray into it was in [00:08:30] documentary, but that makes so much sense. And I think it is that that's that like root of storytelling is documentary and, and the challenge of putting together a [00:08:40] story from, you know, sometimes very different, um, different places.

[00:08:45] And, uh, and so I love knowing that. I love that. That was your root. 

[00:08:49] Natalie: [00:08:50] Yeah. Yeah. And, and you learn so much doing it all on your own. You know, I was directing, I was interviewing, editing, doing the [00:09:00] camera, you know, I was doing everything and I really learned a lot in that experience. And I ended up going to college in [00:09:10] DC.

[00:09:10] Only for one year to do filmmaking. And then I transferred to NYU because I, I really wanted to be able to learn everything, the school that I was at [00:09:20] in DC was more focused on journalism, but I was like, you know, I think I want to write, I think I want to learn, you know, how sets work and I think I want to learn how to [00:09:30] do, you know, more than just documentaries.

[00:09:31] I wanted to learn just more than documentary. So I went to NYU and that's really where I learned. You know, everything that I'm doing [00:09:40] now and, um, where I started to, to write my own stories and make coming of age stories and I fell in love with certain filmmakers and that's really kind [00:09:50] of how I got to where I am today was my experience and everything I learned at NYU.

[00:09:54] Fanshen: Who are some of your favorite filmmakers? Who were the ones that spoke to you then? It's 

[00:09:58] Natalie: always so hard to [00:10:00] choose. Um, I, I, I really love this, um, French filmmaker, Celine Sciamma. She did Portrait of a Lady on Fire. Oh my goodness, yes. [00:10:10] Beautiful, beautiful work. Um, and Barry Jenkins is also one of my favorites.

[00:10:17] Yeah. 

[00:10:17] Fanshen: Hmm. Hmm. And [00:10:20] so I'd love to talk a little bit about grace and obviously, I mean, I think it's important to say that then, well, actually let's start with pure, um, because [00:10:30] you, you First of all, just you saying, I'm going to go to NYU, that's, that's hard in and of itself. Right? Very competitive program. [00:10:40] Do you feel like it was that work that you had been doing that that was part of what helped you get in?

[00:10:45] And what was that process like applying to NYU? 

[00:10:49] Natalie: It's so [00:10:50] interesting because I applied out of high school, like senior year, but I didn't get in. I got rejected when I applied to high school. Oh wow. [00:11:00] Yeah. And I applied again because, Um, I really wanted to go and also the school that I was at in DC had a lot of [00:11:10] racial issues.

[00:11:10] I was there in 2016 during the election and we had hate crimes on our campus. Like it was awful. So I needed to leave. I didn't want to stay there for [00:11:20] another year. So I was like, you know what? Why not try film school again? So I applied to NYU to transfer and I ended up getting in, [00:11:30] um, yeah. Yeah. So. It's it's really funny that I didn't get in my first time.

[00:11:35] I think that just shows you I've always been like very determined [00:11:40] When they 

[00:11:40] Fanshen: said that no you were like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna figure this 

[00:11:45] Natalie: Exactly. 

[00:11:46] Fanshen: Wow. Okay. Okay, and I and I like the lesson. I like the [00:11:50] lesson that you can you can apply again Right. That that's, it's not the end of the world. Um, and there are also, we'll say other filmmakers who don't necessarily even [00:12:00] go to film school, but if you're going to go, NYU is probably a good one to go to and to keep trying to get into.

[00:12:06] Natalie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, and it was a [00:12:10] sacrifice, you know, I, I, I, I, I, at the school that I went to before, I would have had probably like no loans and maybe only like a [00:12:20] little bit, like, I don't know, 5, 000, like something very small for loans, but I chose to go to NYU and I remember my mom sitting me down and saying, you know, this [00:12:30] is how much this is going to cost.

[00:12:32] This is how much debt you're going to have. This is how much debt I'm going to have. Are you sure you want to do this? You need to make the most of it. And [00:12:40] like having that real conversation with me. And so then when I got to NYU, I remembered that and I was like, okay, I really need To like, step up my [00:12:50] game and like, commit to being a filmmaker and do everything I can so that I can, you know, make myself proud of my family, proud, and hopefully make enough money to pay [00:13:00] off all of our loans that we took off.

[00:13:03] So that really helped me kind of, um, go in and like hustle. 

[00:13:08] Fanshen: Yes. [00:13:10] And so, was PURE your thesis? Yes. Okay. Tell us about PURE. Tell us what it's about, why you decided to do it, and what kind of [00:13:20] the future holds for PURE. 

[00:13:22] Natalie: Yeah. So, growing up in Maryland, I was surrounded by a lot of kind of [00:13:30] middle, upper class Black families.

[00:13:32] Um, I have a single mom, so I wasn't quite in that. You know, community, but my mom is really smart and, [00:13:40] um, you know, went to Harvard for grad school and, and now works really high up in administration at a college and she's in a sorority and joined a lot of [00:13:50] organizations. So a lot of her friends and counterparts, you know, their kids were in Jack and Jill or, um, they just did certain like, you know, summers on the [00:14:00] vineyard, things like that.

[00:14:01] Will 

[00:14:02] Fanshen: you describe Jack and Jill for our listeners? 

[00:14:05] Natalie: Ooh, describing Jack and Jill. 

[00:14:08] Fanshen: You 

[00:14:08] Natalie: see how I had 

[00:14:09] Fanshen: you do it and not 

[00:14:09] Natalie: [00:14:10] me. I know. Um, Jack and Jill is technically it's a mother's organization. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Um, I think it's, it's mostly like [00:14:20] to bring mothers together and their children, black mothers together and their children.

[00:14:24] Um, Um, and oftentimes kids who grew up in predominantly white areas will join Jack and Jill so that they [00:14:30] can have a community of other, um, black folks. They, you know, they do afterschool programs and they do trips, they [00:14:40] travel. Every year they have a really big holiday party in New York City that I would sometimes go to with some friends who like invited me.

[00:14:47] Um, it's just like a social organization and they do community [00:14:50] service, I think too. Um, and it's Very fancy. Yeah, very fancy. Exactly. Yeah. And 

[00:14:55] Fanshen: bougie. We can say it. Very 

[00:14:57] Natalie: bougie. Yes. Yes. These are all very [00:15:00] bougie things. Yes. Yes. 

[00:15:01] Fanshen: Yes. Okay. This is Sista Brunch, where we champion the triumphs of Black women and gender expansive people in [00:15:10] entertainment and media.

[00:15:11] Let's pick up where we left off with our remarkable guest, Natalie Jasmine Harris. 

[00:15:18] Natalie: So, I was never in Jack [00:15:20] and Jill, but a lot of my friends and my mom's friends were. So, I kind of I always just observed, like, what they were talking about and what they were doing on the weekend or over the [00:15:30] summer or Christmas break.

[00:15:32] And one thing Jack and Jill does is the cotillion ball, um, which is a ceremony and tradition for a lot of women [00:15:40] across cultures, really. Um, it actually started in Europe. And it prepared young girls to enter into womanhood and become young ladies. They [00:15:50] learned fine dining and etiquette and ballroom dancing.

[00:15:54] Um, and it all culminates in this ball where you're introduced to [00:16:00] society. At a ceremony, you wear a long white ball gown. You have a male escort who wears a tuxedo. And the two of you walk hand in hand in front of your family and friends. [00:16:10] Um, and back in the day, it, it, it was a way for families to kind of like arrange their children's marriages.

[00:16:18] Um, but [00:16:20] you know, we've progressed as a society, so it's, it's, it's not necessarily in that same vein, but a lot of people are set up [00:16:30] by their families, you know, to have like a male escort who. Their family approves of, so it's, you know, it's a, it's a very bougie tradition, [00:16:40] a very heteronormative tradition.

[00:16:42] Um, and yeah, and, and, and a lot of, um, black communities have kind of adopted them from [00:16:50] the zero centric beginning and it's been a big tradition and like, you know, more well to do black communities, including some parts in Maryland. [00:17:00] So I was really intrigued by this tradition. I never did it when I was in high school.

[00:17:05] Um, I said, no, even though my mom and my grandma both did cotillions, I was like, [00:17:10] I don't know if that's for me. Um, because you know, I was just beginning to figure out my identity and sexuality and I didn't feel right, [00:17:20] um, doing something like that and, you know, having The sky, you know, become like my boyfriend for this program.

[00:17:29] And it just, [00:17:30] it just wasn't me. Um, so I said, no, but my God Sista and my best friend did it. And I kind of like watch their experiences and I went to their cotillions. Um, [00:17:40] and so when it came time for me to pick a film that I wanted to write for my NYU, um, Like senior thesis class, I was just thinking about [00:17:50] cotillion.

[00:17:50] Um, and I, for me, I love coming of age stories. So I love thinking about youth and, um, growing up and, and, and what kinds of things like we all kind of go [00:18:00] through, um, that are like universal feelings. And. So I thought about the cotillion as a really interesting environment for like coming of age and [00:18:10] how, you know, that was part of my experience, even though I didn't do it directly.

[00:18:14] Um, and I wrote this, the script about a girl who was queer and had [00:18:20] to do cotillion, she had no choice. Um, and her escort for the cotillion was also gay. So I thought for one, that could be funny, like coming out [00:18:30] at cotillion and, um, I think for me, I watched a lot of movies when I was in high school about people pretending to be couples.

[00:18:39] And I was [00:18:40] thinking about that trope, but with two queer people. Um, and so that's kind of, you know, what sparked the idea for me was thinking about those characters and that [00:18:50] environment. Um, so I wrote the script and that turned into my thesis film. And I made, I shot that short film in November 2020. [00:19:00] 19.

[00:19:00] And shortly after the pandemic hit, yes. And I was editing like crazy in the [00:19:10] first couple of months of, of COVID and I ended up submitting it to film festivals and it had an enormous run. It, it, it went to over 50 film [00:19:20] festivals, like all across the world. Um, and. And ultimately through ABFF, the American Black Film Festival, it ended up getting bought by [00:19:30] HBO.

[00:19:30] And so now it's streaming on max. And I, you know, I never expected that this small NYU film I made when I was a student just [00:19:40] before the pandemic to launch my career and like get bought by a shipping platform. So it was, Really, really incredible. I love 

[00:19:48] Fanshen: it. And now a [00:19:50] feature in the works? 

[00:19:51] Natalie: Yeah. Yeah. Now feature version of the film is in the works.

[00:19:54] It's just like a more expanded story that, um, explores the cotillion even more [00:20:00] and the characters even more. And, and also where I grew up in Maryland even more. So yeah, we're working on, on getting that together and [00:20:10] hopefully getting it made sometime soon. 

[00:20:13] Fanshen: I think, as someone tells me after Sundance, you're gonna be okay.

[00:20:17] Natalie: We'll see. We'll see. You [00:20:20] know. 

[00:20:20] Fanshen: So you mentioned about, um, you kind of, uh, this came in a moment, this story came to you in a moment when you were really kind of thinking about your [00:20:30] own identity and that you had been in spaces where you weren't necessarily kind of, uh, encouraged to, to, you know, really explore your, [00:20:40] Deaf, all of your intersecting identities, but specifically your storytelling is queer storytelling, right?

[00:20:46] It is for pure, it is for grace and, and [00:20:50] a lot of the opportunities now, like, you've done things with, um, without fast, I think, right? Yeah. Um, and so I'd love for you to just talk about [00:21:00] what that means. I mean, and then on top of that being a kind of a young black queer filmmaker and what that means in terms of.

[00:21:08] The stories you [00:21:10] want to tell the things that, that the ways that there may be barriers because of it or challenges because of it, all, all of, all of what comes with that. 

[00:21:19] Natalie: [00:21:20] Yeah. That's a big question. I love that though. For me, I, I do feel. A sense of like [00:21:30] responsibility to my storytelling and filmmaking, I think, you know, I, I always have, that's why I started making films because I felt like a sense of responsibility about, you know, helping, [00:21:40] helping my, like my white classmates know about the world.

[00:21:44] Um, now it's definitely shifted. I, I, I'm not as interested about educating people, [00:21:50] but I, you know. I, for me, I really care about trying to help my community like, like see themselves, see ourselves, especially like the younger version of, of me, [00:22:00] because I know what it feels like to, you know, be in a place where you feel alone, where you're unsure about.

[00:22:06] Who you are and you just feel, [00:22:10] um, confused and frustrated and have all these questions. And for me, I sit down sometimes and I'm like, you know, if I could have watched a TV show, like Love, [00:22:20] Victor, when I was in high school or a movie, like, I mean, hopefully like Pure, you know, that really would have [00:22:30] changed a lot for me.

[00:22:31] So that's kind of why I like to tell the stories that I do. Um, And also because I've, I've seen even for people who are not a part of the [00:22:40] community, but I've, I've seen the impact that it can have to just have exposure to like other people's stories and experiences. 

[00:22:46] Fanshen: Yes. 

[00:22:47] Natalie: Um, I, you know, I remember being at [00:22:50] home in 2020 with my mom and we would watch Pose and we would both learn a lot and talk a lot about, you know, my mom grew up in New York during that time.

[00:22:59] [00:23:00] Um, And she wasn't allowed to go into the village. And we talked about why, you know, and, and how all of those, the balls and everything were happening just, you know, like in her backyard, but [00:23:10] she didn't really know. So we talked a lot about, you know, identity and those experiences. So I think like storytelling can spark important conversations and people can [00:23:20] learn and get empathy.

[00:23:21] Um, So, yeah, that's a big part of, of, of why I do what I do. Um, it, it definitely can, can be a [00:23:30] challenge, especially, it's funny. I think the thing that's been the hardest for me in terms of like all of my intersecting identities and, and, and being a filmmaker has been [00:23:40] like being young. Um, interesting. So, yes.

[00:23:43] Yeah. Yes. . Wow. Yeah. Like, like more so than, than being black or queer. [00:23:50] Um. Arguably, even a woman, although that, I think that might be a close second, um, has, has been being young, you know, I'm, [00:24:00] I'm 25, um, and I started getting into like labs and getting grants and, you know, even [00:24:10] HBO when I, you know, was still in my early twenties, like 23, 24.

[00:24:14] Yeah. And I, and everybody else 

[00:24:15] Fanshen: was. in their fifties and have been doing this for a long time and we're like, what [00:24:20] are you doing here? 

[00:24:21] Natalie: Exactly. 

[00:24:22] Fanshen: Absolutely. Right. Right. 

[00:24:24] Natalie: Yeah, and I would tell people my goals and they would just kind of like undermine them and [00:24:30] be like, Oh, well, you have so much time doesn't matter.

[00:24:32] And it's like, well, no, I, you know, I'm here next to you and I want to make my future, you know, next year, just like you do, you know, don't tell me I should, I should [00:24:40] just wait, you know, so. Yeah, the ageism has been a lot. I feel like people haven't always taken me seriously, um, because of my age. Wow, [00:24:50] fools.

[00:24:50] Fanshen: Fools. 

[00:24:50] Natalie: I'm so 

[00:24:51] Fanshen: glad 

[00:24:51] Natalie: to 

[00:24:52] Fanshen: know I'm not one of those. Wow. Yeah. Actually, I can see, you know, I mean, this is, it's such a challenging [00:25:00] industry and it is an industry, right? And that, and that makes it even harder, especially when you do impact work, like, you know, that the walking that line between. Trying [00:25:10] to make money and, you know, that accepting that this is a capital minded, um, you know, business, um, and then, and then [00:25:20] also, therefore, you have people who have tried to do it for so long and for all the reasons, all the intersecting identity reasons [00:25:30] why there have been barriers.

[00:25:32] including barriers we put on ourselves. And so I think, yeah, what happens is that they, you know, them, I'm sure, [00:25:40] unfortunately, there's some jealousy, there's some crabs in a barrel mentality and, um, and it's too bad. Um, You know, but my [00:25:50] goodness, I mean, we should just be so happy that there's someone else who's making it and forging this path around the kind of storytelling you're, you're [00:26:00] doing also, because you are not coming in and, and necessarily doing kind of the work that's going to get you a lot of money.

[00:26:07] I hope I'm going to put it in the universe that you will [00:26:10] be able to pay off these, these, these bills, maybe some commercial or, you know, do some commercials, but, um, Or 

[00:26:17] Natalie: Marvel, you know, I would do a Marvel movie. 

[00:26:19] Fanshen: Yeah, you [00:26:20] would kill a Marvel movie, again, again. And so, that's something that I love about your work is that you have been talking, I feel like we've, I've had this [00:26:30] conversation this season about, like, being rooted in story first.

[00:26:34] Um, but also, I was so fortunate that I got to be a little [00:26:40] bit of a fly on the wall for, for your process also, like, like for Grace and we, and I'd love to talk about Grace now too, you deciding that you wanted to use [00:26:50] a particular film for this movie. And, and, and I remember, I mean, she put on a lot of stuff and you did it.

[00:26:58] And, and again, and I, and [00:27:00] I'm. And I'm quite certain that is a big part also of like you making that choice at your age when people think that people your [00:27:10] age can't make those kinds of decisions and here you are being like, absolutely. Hey, it's Fanshawe and you're listening to Sista [00:27:20] Brunch. We'll be right back.

[00:27:21] And during this very quick break, if you haven't done this already, you know what I'm asking. I'm asking you to do follow us on Instagram, you know, engage with us, [00:27:30] share your stories, ask us questions, all of that good stuff. So let's talk about your process. So let's talk about grace and [00:27:40] maybe just like, you know, the, the log line or whatever you want to share.

[00:27:42] And then also your, especially for our younger listeners, um, but actually for everybody who wants to know, like, what [00:27:50] is the process of making a short? That's so brilliant, that gets into Sundance. 

[00:27:57] Natalie: I don't, you know, we were just talking about this. I [00:28:00] don't know if I could say, like, how I, how I did it or why so many, I'm always like, so many people are talented, you know, like, why me?

[00:28:09] Sometimes [00:28:10] I, I fall into that imposter syndrome mentality. Um, But I can get to that after so yeah, so for grace It's [00:28:20] a short film also a coming of age story and it follows a young girl named Grace As she prepares for her family tradition of baptism, [00:28:30] and she has to get baptized As she turned 16 to you know kind of enter In like her religious community and also come of age, [00:28:40] um, and she has to repent for something before she can get baptized and starts to second guess.

[00:28:45] The feeling she has for her best friend Louise that are beginning to feel romantic. [00:28:50] And it's a very quiet film. It's also a period piece set in the fifties. So for me, that idea came from thinking about. Not having [00:29:00] too many stories about our queer elders. Um, and actually have a cousin who I recently found out, um, is gay and she's, I believe in her [00:29:10] eighties, um, she had a roommate for a long time and, and like, no one really knew that they weren't just roommates.

[00:29:16] And I was just thinking about her story [00:29:20] and, and, um, thinking about stories. My grandma and my great aunt would tell me about growing up and spending the summers at their grandparents house. Picking peaches and [00:29:30] plucking chickens and running around the field and just doing all these fun things and I was thinking about You know what that could look like if you were [00:29:40] also trying to figure out like you're placed in the world and And your sexuality and falling in love so the story kind of came from Those places [00:29:50] and with it being a period piece.

[00:29:52] I wanted to shoot on film on 16 millimeter film. That was the vision that I had and, [00:30:00] you know, it's expensive to shoot on film, very expensive. Um, so, and, uh, That was a big risk that I had to [00:30:10] take to one make the decision and stick by the decision to shoot on film 

[00:30:14] Fanshen: Hmm, 

[00:30:15] Natalie: but I did and we found people who were generous enough to help us [00:30:20] make that happen like one of our EPS You know like got the film for us the film stock the fiscal Roles for [00:30:30] us and our cinematographer who's incredible to Hila DeCastro She's amazing at shooting on film like that's really one of her specialties as a DP [00:30:40] So she was able to pull favors for us, you know to be able to To get the film like processed and get a camera.

[00:30:47] How did you get 

[00:30:48] Fanshen: her on on [00:30:50] board? 

[00:30:50] Natalie: How did I get her on board? Um, Sue, I am a bit of a stalker, not stalker, but I, you know, I like to watch other short films and other films [00:31:00] period that I think are great. And I always watch the credits and I'm like, Oh, who's this person? Who's that person who shot this? I love the way they did this.

[00:31:07] And so I have a little, I have, um, [00:31:10] A little folder on my computer where I keep like names or, or, um, or IMDBs and, you know, just like profiles of people who I think I'd love to [00:31:20] collaborate with one day. And I was looking through all the DPs who I had on there and, and, and I remember Tejila, um, and so we scheduled a bunch of different interviews with DPs [00:31:30] and, um, me and Tejila just like really hit it off.

[00:31:33] And she also kind of pitched to me, like, she made a deck, um, pitching [00:31:40] herself for the project and ideas she had. And that really showed me like initiative and passion and just like caring for the story. Um, and so we ended up [00:31:50] picking her and it was like the best decision ever. 

[00:31:52] Fanshen: I love it. It's beautiful.

[00:31:55] You have some Daughters of the Dust moments in there too. When I was [00:32:00] asking about the, uh, your, your muses or your favorite films. I, you know, I love Julie Dash. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um, and I'm [00:32:10] sorry, interrupted you. So, okay. So you find your DP, you know, you're going to shoot on 16 millimeter. You find this DP who shoots on film.

[00:32:18] Um, and how are you putting your [00:32:20] team together? Like your, who did you have? So that was the producer on board prior to, to having your DP on or the producers, I [00:32:30] should say. 

[00:32:31] Natalie: Yeah, we had producers on board before, you know, attaching the crew. Um, not gonna lie. We had a bit of a [00:32:40] struggle figuring out the best team.

[00:32:42] Um, and after my last film with Pure, I realized sometimes people who want to work with you may not [00:32:50] always have the best intentions. Um, some people might be in it, you know, just for the, the, you know, And, and it, it really isn't even fame at this level. [00:33:00] Like, these are short films, but, I mean, you know, for the clout or whatever you want to call it.

[00:33:05] And so they may not be putting in the work necessarily. So, [00:33:10] um, it took, it took a lot of, like, trial and error. How did you 

[00:33:14] Fanshen: handle that when, when, when they weren't doing it? 

[00:33:17] Natalie: It was hard. Um, [00:33:20] sometimes having conversations, sometimes honestly not having conversations and it made me just do more work myself, which is not fair.

[00:33:29] [00:33:30] And like, if I could do it all over again, I would definitely rethink, uh, like how I handled, um, certain situations where I wasn't really like, [00:33:40] like getting what I needed as a filmmaker. 

[00:33:42] Fanshen: Yeah. 

[00:33:42] Natalie: Um, but you know, it's, it's all a learning experience. Like now I know what to do for the next one and how to handle situations for [00:33:50] the next one.

[00:33:50] So I'm grateful like for the lessons. And, um, at the end of the day, like the film was made and I'm really proud of it. And, [00:34:00] um, you know, it, it, it, it really took a village. So, 

[00:34:05] Fanshen: That's it's an incredible village. I love it. So exciting to me that [00:34:10] you are building teams. Right? And I think I think that's something that's really nice about, um.

[00:34:18] Coming out of [00:34:20] school and, uh, maintaining the relationships that are helpful and not holding on to the one, as you said, and learning how to have those hard conversations or, [00:34:30] and, and not taking on all the work for yourself, um, and knowing what you deserve, knowing the kind of support that you deserve. Um, So, all right, [00:34:40] so you film it, it's ready, you're going into post, you're then, and then at that point you have to, you have to do, re up your fundraising [00:34:50] efforts, right?

[00:34:51] And was that because you had done, because you had switched to 16 millimeter and so then all that you had went into that? Or was it, what [00:35:00] kinds of things became expensive or more expensive at that point? 

[00:35:03] Natalie: There were a couple different reasons. One, definitely, yeah, shooting on film increased our [00:35:10] cost. Um, and then, we also ended up, um, needing Gosh, I'm like, do you even remember all the [00:35:20] things that 

[00:35:22] Fanshen: were so long ago?

[00:35:23] That's what I love too, though, is like once, once you get over that hump and you're like, you know what? We don't even need to think about those challenges that we [00:35:30] went through. I was like, 

[00:35:31] Natalie: what 

[00:35:31] Fanshen: even happened? Yeah. Um. Which is fine too, I mean. 

[00:35:35] Natalie: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think, like, the bulk of the funds that we had for our [00:35:40] first crowdfunding campaign were just to get through production and, like, get everything in the can.

[00:35:44] And then we were like, okay, we have X amount of money left. We need to finish [00:35:50] the film. So we had to launch one for post production. Um, And, you know, there also, like, were some challenges the [00:36:00] film faced, like, legally. Um, I had to hire a lawyer. Um, we had a collaborator who Again, didn't have the best [00:36:10] intentions and we had to, um, terminate some, some things.

[00:36:16] And so that was an expense. I'm so sorry. [00:36:20] Um, yeah. And it also involved like some funding that they were giving us. Um, earlier in the film, like got taken away and so we were like, okay, well, now we have to [00:36:30] raise this again. So 

[00:36:31] Fanshen: there 

[00:36:31] Natalie: were just a couple of different things that happened in addition to like just needing post production funds.

[00:36:37] Also, we had like other fees, [00:36:40] so yeah, so it was a bit complicated. That's why it took us almost a year, um, to finish the film because we had, we [00:36:50] shot in October and ended up, Um, beginning to edit in the spring. So like April or May. So it took a long time just to like [00:37:00] resolve things and, um, You know, get my energy back from shooting all of those things.

[00:37:06] So, yeah, this film has been a [00:37:10] journey. I learned a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. But now I have a really amazing lawyer. She's the best. Like, literally, she's been in magazines like she's [00:37:20] Shout out to Marcy. 

[00:37:21] Fanshen: Okay, Marcy, thank you for, for, uh, the support. Cause you know, if you tell auntie, she's just going to go beat somebody up.

[00:37:28] So it's probably better that you end [00:37:30] up with an attorney. 

[00:37:32] Natalie: I think I may have told you a little bit in Boston. I was like, yeah, there was this person. Not the best. Yeah. But, [00:37:40] um. Anyway, it's all good now. Yeah. Okay. 

[00:37:43] Fanshen: Okay. What are your, uh, what, what's next for you? And then, and then I'll get to our signature Sista brunch [00:37:50] question, but, but what is next for you?

[00:37:52] We, we know Pure, you're working on the feature for that. Anything else? 

[00:37:56] Natalie: Yeah, I also just finished a short documentary [00:38:00] called Ben and Bloom, so that will be going to festivals soon. That was made through a fellowship program with Outfest and Traverse 32, so [00:38:10] that should be hitting the festival circuit next year as well, or technically this year, 2024.

[00:38:16] Fanshen: Yeah, that's right. Yes. Yes. [00:38:20] Um. Great. Yeah. What else? 

[00:38:23] Natalie: Yeah, and, you know, one of my, my goals for next year is, is to really get as close [00:38:30] as I can to making my first feature. So I have a lot of different features in various stages. You know, we have Pure that's already written, trying to get financing. [00:38:40] I'm writing a feature version of Grace.

[00:38:42] Um, I'm also working on a documentary feature idea that I have. And then I have [00:38:50] another horror feature that we have a pitch deck for looking for a co writer. So I have like four different ideas. You know, I'm just kind of 

[00:38:58] Fanshen: surprised because none of these have come [00:39:00] through my email. So I'm trying to. I'm having a little bit of a lack of understanding here.

[00:39:07] Okay. I'll, I need to 

[00:39:08] Natalie: send you some more emails then. [00:39:10] Yes, you do. Because I have a couple different I ideas. I 

[00:39:13] Fanshen: am, I am here to support, I hope. I hope that's clear. So Yes, please send them. Um, [00:39:20] absolutely yes. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Our signature Sista brunch question, so you, Natalie, are sitting down to a Sista brunch with [00:39:30] young Natalie.

[00:39:31] What are you both eating? What are you both drinking, and what do you tell her? 

[00:39:37] Natalie: I love this question so much. Um, [00:39:40] cause I'm, cause I'm all about the younger version of myself, the inner child, all of it. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:39:45] Fanshen: You make your films for her. 

[00:39:47] Natalie: Mm hmm. 

[00:39:48] Fanshen: Yeah. 

[00:39:48] Natalie: Yeah. So [00:39:50] I, so me now, I'm probably having some chicken and waffles and a mimosa.

[00:39:58] The younger [00:40:00] Natalie's probably having some pancakes with chocolate chips. 

[00:40:05] Fanshen: I mean, what else is there? Mm How can anybody have anything else than pancakes? [00:40:10] It's chocolate chips. 

[00:40:11] Natalie: Yes. It's the best. And I would tell her to keep [00:40:20] going. Um, I would tell her she's loved and she has really important work to do [00:40:30] and has to love herself and I would remind her of how amazing and supportive her friends and family [00:40:40] are.

[00:40:40] Many of them are still in my life now, which is really beautiful to be able to have relationships that have seen me like, you know, at such [00:40:50] different points in my life, um, and to, and to lean on community. Um, and. To just, you know, be confident [00:41:00] about who you are and that one day, like, everything you went through and, and like your vulnerability will really pay off [00:41:10] and, and, and help other people.

[00:41:12] Um, and just how beautiful that is. And I would give her a hug. And, [00:41:20] um, Yeah, just, just, I just be really proud. 

[00:41:26] Fanshen: I love it. Thank you so much, Natalie Jasmine Harris. We're going to be [00:41:30] following you. We're going to be supporting your career. I'm so glad to have you on Sista Brunch. 

[00:41:35] Natalie: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:41:37] I love this [00:41:40] podcast. 

[00:41:43] Fanshen: Thank you, Sista Brunch community, for sharing your reviews, sending us questions, and engaging with us [00:41:50] all over the internet. You can read the transcript of every episode and find show notes on our website at Sistabrunch. com. If you love video, you can watch the full video [00:42:00] interviews on the TruJuLo YouTube channel, youtube.

[00:42:03] com slash TruJuLo media, T R U J U L O media. TruJuLo stands for truth, justice, and [00:42:10] love. Did you know that? It's true. We deeply appreciate your support. support by subscribing to our podcast, leaving us a great review and sharing it with your friends, family, [00:42:20] colleagues, community, everybody who you think would be interested and wants to hear the stories of these incredible guests we have.

[00:42:29][00:42:30] Season five of Sista Brunch is brought to you by TruJuLo Productions. Our show creators are Anya Adams, Christabel Nsiah Buadi, Brittany Turner, and me, Fanshen [00:42:40] Cox. Sista Brunch is a women make movies production assistance program project. The land we record our podcast on is the original land of the Tongva and the [00:42:50] Chumash people here in Los [00:43:00] Angeles.