Martine McDonald: Founder and Festival Programer
Episode Description:
Martine is a film curator, teaching artist, and inclusion consultant, with over a decade of experience at the intersection of social impact storytelling and anti-bias education. As a cultural worker and facilitator, she leads programming that spotlights LGBTQ+ artists and addresses industry pipeline inequities for creative leaders in narrative and documentary film. Most recently, she served as the Director of Artist Development with Outfest. Her prior work includes the inaugural Director of Education for the New York International Children’s Film Festival along with six years as the Director of Programming at Journeys in Film where she furthered the connection between narrative change and film-based education in collaboration with studio partners, production companies and educators.
Martine is also the founder of Practice Wonder, a creative studio and narrative change consulting studio. Practice Wonder celebrates and advocates for liberatory storytelling and the importance of wonder in underrepresented childhoods in television and film. Through consulting, educational program activations, and industry workshops, she guides the development of inclusive storytelling on screen, within communities, and among industry professionals. Notable clients include Sinking Ship and Moonbug Entertainment.
With a commitment to participatory learning, Martine earned an MFA in Social and Environmental Arts Practice from Prescott College and a Bachelor of Arts in Peace Studies from Naropa University. Based in Los Angeles, beyond her role as a cultural worker in arts administration, her personal artistic practices include creative nonfiction and the creation of handmade paints from regional pigments.
TRANSCRIPT:
Fanshen: [00:00:00] Hey, Sista Brunch family. Before we dive into today's incredible episode, we want to share something special with you. did you know that you can join our Patreon community to be a driving force behind Sista Brunch? Check out patreon. com slash Sista Brunch to learn how you can support us and continuing to bring you the stories of Black women and gender expansive people thriving in entertainment and media. Thank you so much! Hi Sistas and Siblings. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Sista Brunch, the podcast that shares the stories of Black women and gender expansive people thriving in entertainment and media. Now, if you're just finding us, you should head over to our website because you can learn all about all of our amazing guests that we've had on our previous four seasons. Our website is Sistabrunch. com. Whether you're already working in, or you want to work in entertainment and media or even if you're just [00:01:00] curious what it's like to work in these industries, that's what our guests do. They share their experiences, the rewarding and the challenging.
And I know Martine and I will get into this today. There is always something amazing to learn from them. And today's guest is someone who I have been learning from for over 10 years. I think it might be more like 15. We'll probably go over that. And I am so very thrilled to give a warm Sista Brunch welcome to the remarkable and my dear friend and a badass Martine Joelle McDonald.
Welcome Martine.
Martine: Thank you! It's a dream to be here with you.
Fanshen: I know we were just saying that it's a little sad that we live near each other and this is the first time we're seeing each other's faces and in far too long.
Martine: It's an L.A. thing. Yes.
Fanshen: LA, it's so LA, you used to not have patience with me on it. And I feel like you've just accepted that [00:02:00] this is going to be the way it is. But every time I see you, I'm like, why do we not spend more time together? So I want to share a little bit about your experience. Are a film curator, you're a teaching artist, you're an inclusion consultant, you founded Practice Wonder, and I can't wait to talk more about that. Your resume also includes some big names, like working at Outfest most recently, the New York International Children's Film Festival, you've worked with Sinking Ship and Moonbug Entertainment, and these are all names that are so important, especially in kind of the children's space. And it's something that I've always admired about you so much is your dedication to working with kids. So let's explore all of this and let's start with your start.
Martine: Yeah.
Fanshen: We have to share that you were on Sesame Street, so maybe that's where your interest,
Martine: One of my proudest moments. I do like to say that there is, I think they did a film where, I learned it on the [00:03:00] street, Sesame Street. But I have a love of children's media because I had the good fortune of meeting Big Bird, but also just growing up in Los Angeles and growing up in a film family. I had the good fortune of being exposed to so many different kinds of artists, so that's always been great.
Fanshen: And so what was life like here? Was it, did it feel like you were definitely going to be in the industry in some way or,
Martine: That's always funny. I feel like we, we can always tell our life stories in different paths. Because I grew up here, I wanted to do anything but this, right? So I was like, oh, I wanna go to fashion school. I wanna be a I'm a mediator for the UN, and I want to learn about, how do you work with conflict. And I've ended up, in film. But yeah, I my undergrad focus was peace and conflict studies and really learning the stories of how communities work together to create change. And that's a lot like team building in a film team and thinking about how each department head and all the folks there are making a better community and [00:04:00] environment. So I was always drawn to the stories of people and following my curiosity in that, and that's just taken a lot of different forms.
Fanshen: Will you talk some more about your undergrad because you went to a really interesting place.
Martine: Yes, Fanshen got chance to visit our little Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. A lot of school pride for this little Buddhist inspired university that was founded by Trungpa Rinpoche and has a lot of wonderful influences from Tibetan culture and living with intentionality and mindfulness. As a way of life. The Peace Studies program at that time was brand new and I actually just talked to a dear old professor yesterday Sudarshan Kapoor, from that program. And it was really about how can you think about living intentionally in your own interpersonal relationships. Down to who grinds the flour that you purchase when you're buying bread, or making bread. And what are your intentions about their well being. And so it really just got me thinking systemically that everyone and everything [00:05:00] is connected. And that has led to really surprising places, honestly. I didn't know, gosh, at 18, this little Buddhist inspired place that I saw on the back of a magazine ad would be so pivotal in my life.
Fanshen: And you said you saw connections there with storytelling. So how did that connect in that way? And especially conflict studies and peace studies, how are those connected to storytelling?
Martine: There's two parts to that. I had this wonderful class with Candace Walworth called The Socially Engaged Imagination. It was looking at, in that point short fiction and how you write stories and tell stories in community that can influence larger movements. And thinking about your imagination is a tool for social change was just the lovely framing before we had this language of like impact producing and all of that that you can have that kind of intentionality was really magnetic to me.
And then also with the good fortune of growing up in a film family reading about the members of SNCC and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. And realizing that I had met some of those [00:06:00] historic individuals as a child on a film set years before and seeing the connection and the empowerment of telling their life stories was just such a gift that I still really think about a lot and treasure.
Fanshen: It's never name dropping when the famous people, are impactful and meaningful people. So let's do some name dropping. You've mentioned already that you were in a filmmaking family. So as much of that as you want to share. And then also, who were these kind of icons that you were connected with when you were really young and get and got inspiration from?
Martine: I'm so grateful for the influence that Danny Glover has had on my life. My mom worked with him for 10 years and Danny is an activist first and a community leader. And the stories that he chose to tell through his production work and there's commercial products too, but often about historical figures social justice movements, people that can make a difference.
And so just watching the choices that he made and watching the films that he made and the way that the teams conducting themselves on set, I can remember being like [00:07:00] 13. On the set of Freedom Song in Wilmington, North Carolina, and the DP was this woman, Amy. And I had never seen a woman DP before, and just, she let me sit on the camera cart, and I was like, what is this? And so those things, literally if you can see it and remember that person that made a difference.
Fanshen: Awesome. And we'll get away from the academic life. Although I think especially for yours, it really is so connected to the work that you continue to do. Obviously what you've just shared about, your Peace Studies and how it's connected to storytelling, but also you did an MFA. Do you want to talk a bit about the MFA program you did?
Martine: Who knew that the best time to go to grad school would be during lockdown? We couldn't have planned that. But I did an MFA program through Prescott College for social environmental arts practice that was co founded by Patrisse Cullors and that really focused on deinstitutionalizing or decolonizing museums and thinking about performance art and community based work and social arts practice in [00:08:00] relationship to the community that you're impacting and that was, the continuation of a thread of social justice is integrated into arts practice and so framing my work that way and life that way was a really helpful ground when we were all figuring out what exactly are we doing with our lives? I think academia gives you the space to reflect but I'm a geek like at heart I just get curious about something and I want to learn about it and find out who made it and who wrote it and what they did and where they came from. So yeah, so it was a nice I'm glad I gave myself that time, or the universe gave us all time to reflect at that point.
Fanshen: you don't get to spend time with Martine unless you're doing some arts and crafts. And I just saw that one of your new, one of your new hobbies is painting with local pigments. And I'm like, of course, this is so Martine. So we're gonna get into that. But I wanna talk about your journey as a queer storyteller, artist, [00:09:00] now, of course, advocate like how you came into being a queer person or when you came out, and then also the ways that's connected to your work.
Martine: Oh, that's such a good question. The queer cultural workers, we say the "queer for pay people" you talk so much about community, but it's oh, your own story. When I came out, my mom sent me a like cover story of the trades of like when Milk came out or something. And it was like the gay icons of Hollywood. And that was like her way of approving. It's like this Hollywood representation. And I was like, okay but so so I mean I would say that there is an unofficial syllabi of queer films that you watch when you come out. I feel like you get the, Better Than Chocolate, and the Frida, and all the things, of the 2000s and 90s, Incredibly True Story of Two Girls in Love.
So I probably entered that phase of life I think I watched the film catalogue, of which I was like, these are my people in college, and then, just got really interested, of course, in [00:10:00] who are the queer people that I should know, queer artists. So it started with spoken word artists, and painters, and authors, the Leslie Feinbergs, and the Audre Lords, and the people that I should know who, who make our community so wonderful.
And then that kind of led to my first entry point to Queer Film Festival was OutFest, I think, about ten years ago. And going to some screenings and seeing projects and then meeting the programming team and then realizing, Oh wait, I like building community like this too. So it is true that my work is very intertwined with community and identity and making spaces that I would have wanted.
Fanshen: And you've really, you've curated, especially the LGBTQ plus programming for some of our favorite film festivals, and I curated, I don't mean to say that in the past tense, I know you will continue to, so first of all, as a Sista bruncher one of our siblings, a Black woman and a queer woman in this industry, what are those experiences like? And [00:11:00] where are places for improvement for all of us?
Martine: Yeah, definitely. The, we know this. We've talked about this before, but when people say they can't find You know, a queer director, or a Black queer trans person, or, I'm like, I know hundreds, there are hundreds and thousands of queer people working in this industry that are so talented and just to have the privilege to come across them either in the audience of a screening, during a Q& A, advocating, or volunteering for someone's film because they want to see it happen And I think that actually started through a salon series I was a part of years ago and meeting people through that that led me to more of a community festival space.
I can, I know they exist, but to then be the person who's put in a room to advocate for them the challenge becomes the fierceness in which I feel like you need to talk to X, you need them to direct this and that you know that the list or the email or the networking I'm doing could change someone else's [00:12:00] life, that, that feels inspiring, but also it feels it's a bit of pressure sometimes. I think, there aren't that many Black women programmers nationally at top ten festivals let alone queer festivals. There is often a balance of what can I do, or what my values are, and what do I dream for our community, and then what, Can I actually move forward? Because we know there are so many cooks and sponsors and people in the kitchen of what makes this all happen.
So those are some of the things that pop up. But the joys are when someone gets a grant. Just, this last few days, the people that I've been pushing for other labs or other things they've gone through with me. And seeing who's on that list. Some of our friends just received a grant this this week. Yeah, so that's fun.
Fanshen: Some of our guests have talked about feeling pigeonholed like, okay, so now I'm the Black woman on this and therefore I have to, but I feel like you've always been like, yes, this is my lane and I like it.
Martine: Oh geez, I can't believe I am saying this. I do think that things change [00:13:00] with time and age and I am in a, let's say, a pause right now because it does, get exhausting being the only. Or the first, or, all of that, and I love being a queer voice. I also know the privileges of how I present and how I am read that allows me to be in the spaces and conversations that I'm in. That if I'm having a hard time, I can only imagine how it is for someone else who has different proximity or ways of presenting than me. So I am very conscious of that and I try to think about where I can pass the mic or, bring someone else in. Yeah. So that's something that I think I feel more now than I did maybe five years ago.
Fanshen: So yeah, when I think of Martine, I think of your peace studies and and just the ways what you've introduced me to around Naropa and that work there. And I think of queer advocacy for yourself and for others.
And then I also think of young [00:14:00] people, because you have always been, even when we connected at the Mixed Roots Festival so long ago and on mixed roots chat like that has always been something that's been so important to you. And I love that part of that was meeting Big Bird when you were a little girl, but also specifically you're about like the kids that don't get to see themselves. So can you talk about the advocacy you do for young people?
Martine: Yeah, so I'm very big on, academic spaces call it childhood studies, but just like we have gender studies, this idea that young people don't have a sense of societal agency, and they're in the States, especially, it's we are guardians for children, and they're only allowed to do X, Y, Z things, as opposed to having their own stories and inner, deep lives.
So I'm really big into cinematic childhood and having diverse representation in that. And one of the last projects I did for my last festival was to institute a family day programming that was all shorts featuring young people that were not trauma [00:15:00] driven, that were about joy and affirmation and inclusion and exploration and a lot of very Childhood businesses were in several films or just having a sense of leadership.
So there's some beautiful shorts. The Disney Launchpad program had some great shorts this past year. The Roof was an Indigenous led story of a teenager realizing that they were Two Spirit one of their elders. And so just really beautiful stories. Beautiful Florida is a short about a little girl, Puerto Rican girl, who wants to start an ice cream business that her abuela loved. And just things that are like, oh, that's not the kid that we see on sitcoms every day, or we see we have a universal young person on a show, but it's the specificity of childhood that I think brings us all more joy.
So yeah, so any programming my education work started more so with Journeys in Film of being able to merge film and education. And so preparing classroom teachers to teach with film and think about a subject specific [00:16:00] lesson plan. If you're teaching a social studies lesson about Malala, but you're also teaching geography and also culture and music because of a documentary, like that brings me joy.
So any way I can bring media as a connection point for young people makes me really happy. And I do dream of, a children's content fund for the states. I know the UK had one briefly that.
Fanshen: Oh, I love that.
Martine: yeah, because a lot of filmmakers don't realize that they're making things for young people. And they're not only making it for young people, but if we're talking about any number of global conflicts and climate crisis and all these things. It's only going to build through the intentional conversations with young people, and that's going to happen through media and art. it's not rocket science, but we need everyone in on it.
Fanshen: that's brilliant. And you, so you mentioned that were you going to say that in England they have, like that they're in other countries, there's actually a fund for
Martine: Yeah, I believe that one might have shrunk briefly last year, if the budget, if I read that, [00:17:00] recently, but the fact that they, designed a pathway for content for young people on Channel 4, I think it was, where it would fund underrepresented filmmakers, make the content. Distribute it. And have this pipeline of respect that young people deserve artful media. And so I love, Generations at Berlinale is one of my favorite categories. Beautiful films that come out of there.
This is Martine, and you're listening to Sista Brunch, the podcast about Black women and gender expansive people thriving in entertainment and media.
Fanshen: Hey, it's Fanchshen youhost here at Sista Brunch. We're taking a quick break, but don't go anywhere. Unless you go to head over to Instagram to follow and engage with us @sistabrunchpodcast. Alright, let's get back into this conversation with film curator, teaching artist, and founder of Practice Wonder, Martine Joelle McDonald.
You mentioned, and we've had this conversation with the other guests and I come up against this in doing development, figuring out what can I support through [00:18:00] TruJuLo that the films that you curated for Outfest for the children and family day did not represent trauma. So I would love to hear your thoughts on what does that mean? Why not? Is there any place for sharing the challenges and the trauma?
Martine: Yeah, so one of the things that I love to talk about with our programming team or peers in our field is that we have this responsibility to our audience. And if we can't provide essentially what would be like aftercare to have a thoughtful conversation when we know that the rest of our community and society and larger climate is, X number of countless, anti trans bills then I don't think it's a responsible thing right now to come to your family, essentially, your queer community, and say, Hey, as a young person, we wanna make sure that you see a future that includes you that affirms you, and that allows you to dream bigger and better and so definitely having difficult conversations is important. I think even just this week, The Dads [00:19:00] came out, that documentary that Dwayne Wade did with Matthew Shepard's father, like to talk about the difficulties of trans childhood. But it should be about having safe spaces that you can responsibly talk through something, and I don't think that a public audience is always the safest space. If you're in a lab, if you're in a classroom setting, if you're in, and maybe, it would depend. Maybe there's a school based program like Journeys in Film, or It Gets Better, it has beautiful EduGuides that you can follow through a relationship. And make sure you're doing it responsibly. That's all. And there might be other programs that we put together that are a little challenging or painful. For some things to be like joy is resistance. Joy is just affirmation and a gift.
Fanshen: Ah, I love it. I love you so much.
So you've worked with and continue to work with these really powerhouse institutions, especially around LGBTQ representation but you've got your own company as [00:20:00] well, Practice Wonder, which also just the name. I'm like, this is so Martine. So tell us what it is. What are your, what are you doing currently? What are your hopes for it in the future?
Martine: Someone here was a key part of that kickoff of we got to do a children's episodic lab and Fanshen was a
Fanshen: That was amazing.
Martine: I'm so grateful for your support on that. And at that time, gosh, before pandemic, which feels like a lifetime ago, but our goals change, right? And so at that time, I was trying to fill a gap and make a conversation happen around inclusive content for young people. I think that the consulting pipeline is a little bit I think it's a little bit different now, even three years later, in terms of we want people, we want writers to be staffed and in a pipeline where they can create change and not just have consultants come and do things. And I, I do enjoy consulting on projects. I will get requests from different production companies with kids content just to review it looking at power dynamics, racial bias, all kinds of things like that. But what I want Practice Wanderer to [00:21:00] be in the future as I grow is more about these intentional conversations and community learning spaces. So creative studio, one part, one part interactive programming that's not beholden to any one institution but is more about what does it mean to practice anything? A, we don't have a sense where we get to learn and be clumsy and have hard conversations and have fun conversations. And then practicing wonder together. If you're watching a film together and you have a talk back and then you do a workshop to put that into practice, what you've just watched. That's where I'm going now. But I would love, again, any kind of incubation lab. I'm always looking for Funding partners for that, I named it Practice Wonder because I need that too. Like I am a pretty serious person, you know actually, I am, i, want to play and I need that reminder to feel that whimsy and that wonder and that awe and that moment in the present is what matters. Not one day when all the things are off my list, next week. Then I will get to practice wonder. No, it's stop, stand in the sun, [00:22:00] look at that bird, I just learned its name.
Fanshen: Oh, you're such a gem. You're such a gem, Martine. All right. You are sitting down to a Sista Brunch with little young Martine and you can choose whatever age she is. But you and young Martine are sitting down together and I want to know and we, and it's a brunch, right? And I want to know what you both are eating, what you both are drinking And what do you tell young Martine?
Martine: Oh, goodness. Young Martine ate way too much sugar. So I would definitely pick Ridiculous Lucky Charm is French Toast or something crazy colorful, sweet, something like that. But me now, I like a good Benedict, like a Salmon Benedict or something.
Fanshen: Good.
Martine: And then,
Fanshen: Wait a minute. Were we, weren't we both vegan at the, didn't, [00:23:00] aren't you the reason I became vegan and now you're talking about Benedict's?
Martine: I'm not going to put you out there, I don't know if I influenced you to become vegan years later, but I am no longer vegan, are you not vegan anymore? Okay! I
Fanshen: am very vegan and
Martine: wait, what? Okay! Yes.
Fanshen: I'm full. Wow. Wait a minute. I newsflash. Wait, you're not vegan anymore. Oh my goodness.
Martine: was vegan for three years and then even tried to be vegan through going to Germany once and missed a lot of delicious things. But there's a lot of
Fanshen: Yeah, that will.
Martine: there. Yeah.
Fanshen: Yeah, I'm vegan. I'm, yes, and no, I wasn't vegan in France, but
like
Martine: Yeah.
Fanshen: vegan at home. And, if the dessert is really good at the restaurant, I'm not vegan. So That's and you yes, good. Okay. Okay, so you're having eggs benedict.
Martine: Benedict, I've come around to eggs finally, more eggs. But matcha I'm all about a matcha latte. I'm having a matcha right now.
Fanshen: [00:24:00] Okay. Some things stay the same. So you are a huge matcha fan. I do remember that.
Martine: that is, it is, if you gotta do it good though, people burn it. It's terrible.
Fanshen: Oh. Okay. No, you got to tell us, how do we do matcha correctly?
Martine: Oh gosh, okay. Matcha full of New York is one of my favorites. But you gotta sift your matcha. You gotta do a little whisk. And then you do your little milk foamer, game changer at home, milk foamer. You pour that in, you swirl. It's very nice. Lavender syrup makes it extra good.
That's not probably traditional, but it's a joy. So yeah, so that would be my drink of choice. And what I would tell younger me Ooh, that's such a good question. I think if I were talking to me now, talking to 21 year old me, who you knew would say, oh gosh, the things you're afraid of are very valid but the joy that comes out of those challenges is worth [00:25:00] it for a community. I think I say that because right now we're in this time where leading with your values and leading with your voice can be really fraught and can seem like it's costing you something. I think 21 year old me had this really lovely idealistic idea that if I was nice to people. They would be nice.
Fanshen: oh
Martine: that is not I know you were like, oh Martine. But but I think that also gave me the resolve that you can't let other people change your values. And so the thing that I have to be constant about for younger me and now is don't let them change you. Don't let them change who you are.
It's okay that they're going to do any number of things in our industry, in our community. But if I believe, our voices are valuable and a gift to this space and queer voices are key to our future and deserve protection and joy and love and wonder, then it doesn't really matter what other people [00:26:00] will do or say because it's going to be more evident about how you care yourself than anything else.
So yeah, that's what I would say. And have fun.
Have fun.
Fanshen: Absolutely. Oh, Martine, I have fun every time I'm with you.
Martine: Yes,
Fanshen: Thank you for being on Sista Brunch. I just really, I adore you. I'm so proud that you're here. I'm so proud that you continue to work through the challenges that this industry constantly presents to all of us.
Martine: if I can say one more thing for
our
Fanshen: can say as many things as,
Martine: I think something I've been thinking about a lot as a curator is that arts workers, whether you're a filmmaker or a film programmer or you're a distributor, We are in community together, and there is a caretaking that I'm feeling about our arts workers in particular.
Because we know that we have a lot of stride, and we have a lot of challenges, and we have a [00:27:00] lot of goals and dreams. But to caretake yourself because of the story that you're building, whether it's a film or an institution, that's not going to be sustainable unless your well being is intact. So I'm very big on talking about artist wellness, but also talking about art worker wellness. We can't make spaces for community if we're not whole. And I just want to uplift
that
Fanshen: Why are you looking at me? Why are you looking at me?
Martine: We get to you're, we can meditate together. But yeah, but I think that's really vital. And I feel like we have all these conversations and circles about pipelines and infrastructure and all of that, but not how do we care take ourselves so we can build that next project.
And a lot of times that's going to look like continual skill building with like our own joy. So I just want to add that because I think it's important to our work.
Fanshen: Add it and give us a couple of specifics. What can we do to
Martine: this is gonna sound funny, but I've been reading a lot more poetry because I find that a one page poem [00:28:00] gives you seven scenes. You can learn economy of language and storytelling through poetry in a different way, and if you were then to try and adapt that poem to a pilot or adapt that pilot into a feature. What are the ways that different art forms fuel your curiosity, especially if the industry is a little bit exhausting? And so reading poetry is
Fanshen: It's funny, I was, I recently was listening to your girl Krista Tippett, which I'm a hundred percent certain you could turn me on to her. And and she, so good, I know you do, on being, and she had on Clint Smith. I don't know if
Martine: Oh yeah, huh.
Fanshen: episode.
The, and he read some of his poetry and it was just, yeah, it was really moving to me and I thought I need to listen to more poetry.
So I
love that one.
Martine: I love it.
Yes, but so poetry reading watercolor, I really do think that there is some teaching in watercolor. I'm not good at it, but the feeling of [00:29:00] frustration or joy if you get the thing you want when you can't control the water or the color is like a really meditative thing. thing. And also like real friendship, like doing an activity and not talking about work, going on a walk in the lagoon, going to your favorite restaurants, music performances.
Beyonce has been my therapy this year. It's important.
Fanshen: Martine, thank you. Thank you. We'll make sure everybody knows where to find you and support you and hire you and work with you if you're available to work.
Martine: You're
Fanshen: Yeah. I love you. so much.
Martine: you. Take good care and take care of you as an arts worker.
Fanshen: I will.
I will.
It's been such a joy sharing stories, laughter, and inspiration on this episode of Sista Brunch. Your support means the world to us. So as we sign off, just remember that your narratives are powerful and your journeys are so meaningful. [00:30:00] So stay bold, Sistren. Stay fabulous until next time. Bye bye.
Season five of Sista Brunch is brought to you by TruJuLo Productions. Our co creators are Fanshen Cox, that's me, Anya Adams, Christabel Nsiah Buadi, and Brittany Turner. Sista Brunch is a Women Make Movies Production Assistance Program Project. The land I host this podcast on is the original land of the Tongva and the Chumash people.
