Malarie Howard: Trust Your Voice, Even if Other People Don’t Get It
Episode Description:
Malarie Howard is a Los Angeles-based screenwriter and musician who grew up as the only Black girl in various WASPY communities, listening to Christian screamo rock, singing opera, and writing fan-fiction. She graduated from Silicon Valley’s Santa Clara University, where she majored in “not engineering like she should have.”
These days, she's working on the CW show IN THE DARK. She's also the creator of the dark comedy SPIRALING, which is inspired by her experiences of managing her mental health while working in the tech industry. She tells us about how her mother inspired her love for writing, why she needed to follow her Hollywood dreams.
Transcript:
Fanshen Cox (00:00):
Hey, welcome to Sista Brunch. I'm Fanshen Cox.
Anya Adams (00:03):
And I'm Anya Adams! And if you're joining us for the first time on Sista Brunch, we talk about black women plus working in the media and entertainment and the arts and how they broke into it and also how they're staying in it, and what it takes to make it through...
Fanshen Cox (00:16):
Anya, what is this plus thing? What is that all about? What does it mean?
Anya Adams (00:20):
I was going to ask that to Chris...
Fanshen Cox (00:23):
Were you gonna ask that?!
Anya Adams (00:23):
But, I think she means, you know.
Christabel Nsiah-Buadi (00:25):
me?!
Anya Adams (00:26):
... Black women.
ALL (00:27):
plus.
Fanshen Cox (00:28):
...so if you're not a CIS gender black woman, but you're a transgender black woman, you belong here, with us, you are welcome - or non-binary or nonconforming: welcome. We all count. And so what Sista Brunch means is that you are going to hear some great stories about what it's really like, for real, truly to work in the industry.
Anya Adams (00:53):
And if you want to work in the industry too, or maybe you just want to hear what things are like, but you will hear some inspiration from these amazing guests that we have with us. And so our guest today is Ms. Malarie Howard, and she's a Los Angeles based screenwriter and musician who grew up as the only black child or girl in various waspy communities, which I'm so excited to talk to you about because I also grew up in a waspy community. I did also have to listen to screaming Christian rock and, uh, sing opera and you love writing fan fiction, which is very exciting. You've had a nomadic childhood, so you traveled around the world or just the States....?
Malarie Howard (01:36):
The only time we went outside of the States for two years, we lived in Amsterdam.
Fanshen Cox (01:39):
Oh yeah. You're so brilliant. I'm lucky to have worked with you and seen your work and you've got this original dark comedy 'Spiraling' and it's inspired by your personal experience with dealing with mental health while working in the tech industry. And it is set up. Homegirl has an option at MRC studios and you're working on the CW’s 'In the Dark,' your show,
Anya Adams (02:02):
When you say it, it's set up, what's happening with it right now?
Malarie Howard (02:03):
MRC purchased it and it's in development right now. Initially I wrote it as an hour long and they bought it as a half hour. So I'm doing the rewriting process right now and then hopefully it'll go to a network afterwards...
Fanshen Cox (02:19):
We're gonna get Into some of that terminology just for those who you know, kind of may not know a lot about writing in the industry. This is what's great is it Malarie is our kind of our, one of our first writer guests. So we're really going to dig into what does it mean to be a writer. We're going to get it out to all of those things, but we always like to just start off by asking, how did you get into this process? What was the journey for you?
Malarie Howard (02:42):
Okay. So I think my journey starts with my mom actually.
Malarie Howard (02:47):
I was born in LA and my mom moved out here from Chicago with my dad for his job and she needed a job. So she's started temping and she wound up at Paramount and, she really liked the industry and she was already a writer but had never written a screenplay. And so it made her want to write a screenplay. And then she naturally became a show runner as assistant to one of the only women that was running a show at the time.
Anya Adams (03:16):
Who was that,
Malarie Howard (03:16):
Her name is Susan Seger. She's no longer a showrunner. She's actually a therapist now.
Anya Adams (03:21):
Oh, cool. What was the show she was running?
Malarie Howard (03:23):
"Brooklyn Bridge." And my mom, she just kind of mentored my mom. And so my mom started writing. She at the same moment in my life, uh, it happened for her to, when she was like 26, 27, she sold a spec to, uh, "A Different World."
Anya Adams (03:41):
So a spec script, she wrote a.. An episode of "A Different World" and she sold it to the writers or the creator of a "Different World."
Malarie Howard (03:48):
Correct. And they didn't actually produce it, but it was enough to get her, her agent and a manager and she was taking all these generals and pitches and she had three separate meetings with, [NAME REDACTED ON PODCAST]
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And he's going to hate me for telling this story because she's actually never told it to me. I've only heard it from my dad and my grandmother. She's just very private. And so basically what happened was she, her very last meeting, she pitched a sketch and then never heard from them again. And then the next season her sketch was on the show.
FC and AA (04:28):
NOOO!
Malarie Howard (04:29):
...and it crushed her and she just, I honestly, she stopped writing for almost 20 years, but she would write my sister and me little story books and that's when I started writing because I wanted to write my sister story books. And then that just kept blooming into other things. When I was in middle school, me and my friend Jamie Johnson, we would write little novellas and then at recess rather than playing on the jungle gym, we would edit each other.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
[LAUGHTER].
Malarie Howard (05:03):
And, uh, then I started doing fan fiction cause I really just saw a lack of black people in my favorite movies, that being "Lord of the Rings", and I really just had a huge crush on Legolas and I wanted there to be a black elf to make out with Legolas, so I wrote that!
Malarie Howard (05:21):
[And then I was done! {laughter]
Malarie Howard (05:24):
And then I went into a, I went to a film camp my sophomore year and it was very editing... Sophomore year of high school... It was very edit, editing heavy. And so I thought - I don't want to do film anymore. This is boring. And I thought I wanted to be a journalist, which is what my mom studied in college. When I got to Santa Clara, I hated my journalism class, but I loved my screenwriting class and I was like, "Oh, this is how I'm a writer and I like this a lot." And uh, after I graduated, I went to my parents and I was like, "I'm going, thanks for spending all this money. I'm going to go to LA and be poor and try and be a screenwriter." And my mom, her reaction was more of just reliving the trauma per experience. And then my dad was more like, uh, no, that's not going to happen at all. You need to be an engineer. You need to do something in tech. That's how, that's the way the world is moving. And I tried it anyway for about a week and I didn't realize you needed to be here a lot longer than a week to get a job. [LAUGHTER] But I only comparatively, like all my friends at Santa Clara studied engineering and business. So they had jobs before they even graduate.
Fanshen Cox (06:41):
Sure. Plus your mom had this amazing story where she was temping at Paramount and then suddenly assisting a show runner.
Malarie Howard (06:48):
Yeah. And I, you know, the week I was here, I realized I had to live off credit cards and my friends are saying, Hey, $90K starting salary at Uber. And I'm like, Oh, I don't want this anymore. So I found a job as a copywriter at a startup, uh, in San Francisco. And it was uh very interesting experience, which I had a mental breakdown, a total mental breakdown where I was in a psychiatric ward and everything. Wow. Which is what spiraling is inspired off of. But I think that was a wake up call, not only for me but for my parents as well because as you guys probably know, black people don't really talk about mental illness. And you know, leading up to that point, I told my parents, something's not right. Like I feel this way or feel that way.
Malarie Howard (07:37):
And my dad would kind of write it off as, Oh, that's just twenty-something problems. The world's hard, black people don't have time to be depressed. And my mom kind of, she's very religious, so she was kind of like, let's pray about it. And it, you know, sometimes it's a chemical imbalance in your brain. Sometimes it's just your environment and, or it's, you know, trau... Traumatic incidents that happened in your life. And so that was kind of the moment where I had to look at myself and honor who I really am and my parents had to do the same. And my mom sat me down and she was like, I think you need to go and try and be a screenwriter for real this time. And she's like, you don't have kids, you don't have a partner. You are young, talented and now's the time to do it. And so kind of with her validation, which I needed at the time, I came out to LA and found a job in a week.
New Speaker (08:27):
SEGMENT BREAK
Fanshen Cox (08:27):
for me, something that's exciting about having a younger person with us and talking about your experiences because the fact that they've said we want you to go from hour to half hour or vice versa, there was a period where if you were writing hour, that was all you were going to do in the same way that we're saying, this is the thing you do. And even just formatting this script looks different. Right? But now there's Quibi, which is 10 minute episodes, right? So all these different
Fanshen Cox (08:56):
options and we're even saying, Oh, if this doesn't work as a show, let's try it as a film. And I think fortunately it's more and more flexible around that.
Malarie Howard (09:07):
I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think Get Out was when I realized, Oh, I can do whatever I want because I think Jordan Peele had been boxed in as a sketch. Yeah. Not even comedy and then he was on Mad TV. Match it up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I just, and for him to make a horror film, that was so good. That was so good and a little funny and it was still his voice. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and then go to the Twilight zone. I realized that, Oh, I can really do whatever I want. I'm not going to only write one thing.
Anya Adams (09:41):
One thing, how do you keep yourself motivated and moving through this experience? Because you, you are one of the blessed that did get your word out, your voice out. You've got something sold. But what do we tell people that, you know, one foot in front of the other? How do you do that?
Malarie Howard (09:55):
That's a good question. I think this is going to sound weird, but I know that I had to hit rock bottom for me and I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I hit rock bottom in an industry and an in a world that I didn't care about. Ooh, interesting. Because it was bound to happen at the agency because of the environment that I was in. And so once I hit rock bottom in tech and then went to therapy and started getting, putting myself back together, once I sat at a desk at an agency where agents are literally yelling at their assistants, my agent never verbally abused me.
Malarie Howard (10:34):
And I feel lucky that he didn't accept that should be the norm. I had to realize that even though everyone around me is acting like the stakes are really high and that it's serious, it's not that serious. And realizing what really is important. You're here to learn, do your job well. If your boss calls you an idiot because you forgot to add a period at the end of a sentence, that's your boss's problem. Yeah. I think that's the other thing is you get fired in the agency for stupid reasons and a lot of assistants think if I get fired it's the end for me. And that's why they are so lik ...because they want it so bad, they really, really want to be in this world. You're going to bounce back. I think that's the thing is: it's never over remembering that.
Malarie Howard (11:24):
And then also I think finding good people and, and realizing just because someone might make you look good in your career doesn't mean they're good for your health, but taking out that, and then it sucks cause like therapy is like so good for you. But uh, it's really expensive.
Anya Adams (11:42):
It's really effing expensive!
Fanshen Cox (11:44):
Were you able to find a black woman or person of color and was that important to you?
Malarie Howard (11:49):
You know, one of the things that I learned in this industry too that is really good for I think people of color and women and queer people to hear is that just because someone looks like you doesn't mean they're here for you.
ALL (11:59):
[RESPONDING IN THE AFFIRMATIVE] Word!
Anya Adams (11:59):
Finger snaps are happening!
Malorie Howard (12:05):
And so I thought at one point it was really important for me to find another black woman to talk to. And there were certain things that yes, only a black woman could understand.
Malarie Howard (12:16):
At the time I was very confused about...I.. Trump had just won and I was in an interracial relationship and I was like, "I'm with a colonizer!" And I was like, I needed to talk to a black woman about that. But, uh, that was really the only thing. And then everything else, it just, I just needed someone who could understand me and it didn't matter what they looked like.
Fanshen Cox (12:38):
Are you comfortable talking more about mental health? I think that's something we don't talk about. Or share also...
Malorie Howard (12:42):
Oh yeah, we don't, no.
Fanshen Cox (12:43):
...if you're comfortable.
Malarie Howard (12:45):
So when I was in high school, I had a lot of anxiety. We moved around a lot growing up and I think that had a lot to do with it. Cause I never had a stable home, like physical place. And so my sister and I were each other's best friends. I was constantly meeting new friends and then losing them. And once I got to high school, growing up in WASPY communities.
Anya Adams (13:12):
Very white, yeah...
Malarie Howard (13:14):
The one that we grew up in Washington was a lot more, I felt more relaxed because I saw other people of color around me, no black people, but I saw a lot of Asian people. But when I got to high school in San Diego, I went to a very small Christian school. I was the only black kid. And San Diego is very conservative an very racist! (laughs) And for the first time I was experiencing actual, like what I felt was like racism. Before I had like...
Fanshen Cox (13:50):
Oh my God,
Malarie Howard (13:50):
..."your hair is like cotton!" But, but it wasn't in a way of "I hate it!" But it was just like, "I've never seen that before." But in San Diego it was like, "Malarie, do you have watermelon in your lunch today?...
Malarie Howard (14:04):
Where's your fried chicken?" Stuff like that where it's like, "Oh my God." So I was dealing with that and then also moving and then my parents and then trying to find friends. And I started self-harming and I think I saw, like I even, I found it from the EMO music I was listening to. And my mom saw one, she saw a scar and she started crying. I've only seen my mom cry three times in my life. My dad cries all the time. But my mom, she barely cries and her solution was, let's pray about it and let's not talk about it afterwards.
Fanshen Cox (14:45):
Right.
Malarie Howard (14:45):
So the only reason why I really stopped cutting was because I felt guilty for hurting her, but the issues had not been addressed. And then in college, I was the victim of sexual assault.
Malarie Howard (15:01):
And so I also didn't know how to process that either. And then also when going from a very strict upbringing to college, I went off. I did everything and didn't know, didn't have any structure or anyone to really talk to about the new pain I was feeling because my first kiss was when I was 18. I didn't mess with boys until college. So I was having all this new experience and new pain, new..., Didn't have anyone to talk to. And then once I graduated and started in the workplace, it was now bills and loans. I had all this financial pressure. My parents were finally divorcing, so I couldn't really ask them to help me out. And the nature of tech, you're getting in at 6... 7:00 AM and you're working till 11:00 PM. And then because it was a startup, it was so small and everyone was under the age of 35 so it was like college 2.0 where after work we'd go get drinks.
Malarie Howard (16:04):
Yeah, go get drinks and get really drunk. And it just all blended in together. And I started feeling inadequate at work. And so I, for the first time ever, I was like, maybe I should try Adderall. Which is what my friends would do in college to stay up and finish their papers. And later on realized Adderall can not... can sometimes not be okay for someone with anxiety problems. That just like there was a week where I was just taking unprescribed Adderall. And then I had done Molly for the first time with my friends and sorry, mom [LAUGHTER] and I just all just snapped. And I remember feeling like I need a break so badly. I need to like, I knew that I needed to step back, but I didn't think I could ask for help because I thought it was going to make me look weak or in un...incapable of being an actual adult.
Malarie Howard (17:01):
I felt like I remember praying...this is really, really dark, but praying a car would hit me so I could just go to the hospital and recuperate. And it wasn't my, it wasn't my fault. It wasn't cause I was weak. It was cause somebody else hit me. Um, and so there was like a happy hour. I got really, really drunk and one of my friends at work, uh, just could tell that I was not okay. And I was saying weird things. And when I went home I drank more. And then I took a ton of Advil and was texting my family and friends these really dark, cryptic like "goodbye. I'm sorry for tomorrow" texts.
Anya Adams (17:42):
Oh my goodness.
Malarie Howard (17:42):
And nobody really thought I was about to do something. That's a thing about mental illnesses. You can project like everything's fine. She's fine. Oh, Malarie's just drunk.
Malarie Howard (17:56):
She's so sad and like dramatic. But my friend, uh, that I worked with was like, no, something's wrong. So he actually came to my apartment, pulled me in an Uber and Ubered me to the ER and they put me on a 51 50 hold because they, which is like in California, they can keep you for I think up to 72 hours against your will essentially, if they think you're a danger to yourself or to other people. And so honestly II, it was one of those situations where I felt like I could have lied my way out of it, but I, it was basically my car hitting me. I knew that I needed to be here and actually take this break even though it was like really traumatic.
New Speaker (18:46):
[SEGMENT BREAK]
Fanshen Cox (18:46):
Hmm.
Malarie Howard (18:46):
So I was in the hospital for three days and it was really interesting just being around people who look like our expectation of someone who struggles with mental illness.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
My roommate had, I think she was schizophrenic and she was talking out loud to herself. So it's the things that we see like on TV or we see like sadly in, on Skid Row. And so we think, Oh yeah, that's mental illness, but we never think like that person sitting at the desk next to us, right. Be struggling, you know? And that's when I saw that it's such a spectrum and I needed to be there just as much as everybody else. That was in the hospital.
Fanshen Cox (19:27):
Malarie.... I have to say this. We're so grateful for you sharing this. We can circle back to your point about voice because what you did for us just now is to show exactly that the piece that you wrote that you got to option was literally specifically connected to who you are and your voice.
Fanshen Cox (19:47):
And I think it's such a great piece of inspiration to say we truly want to hear your story. So I thank you for that. It's amazing.
Anya Adams (19:58):
I mean obviously you wrote this, this piece and it's based on you, but you sitting here and actually telling us this story is so brave and I'm really thankful that you did it as well because I think our listeners can really learn something from what you've just talked about personally. And also I think one of the things you touched on, cause I feel like I struggle with it. Is this like, I don't even know. It's not, it's not walking depression, but this thing where you can, you're, you're operating.
Fanshen Cox (20:27):
the cloud...
Anya Adams (20:28):
...you're smiling, but there's all this **shit** going on and it's so true. The person beside you could be going through some **shit** and it may not look like schizophrenia.
Anya Adams (20:38):
It's so important. Like you were saying, your friend...you know, to actually key in on people that you care about and really listen to what they're and what's happening with them. Right. So you can care for them.
Malarie Howard (20:49):
And I think, and not to, you know, like get all my friends who didn't reach out, but I think that's like, I think some people are so afraid that they're going to be wrong and then insult you. Right. Because mental illness has such a stigma in our culture that it's like, Oh, if I, if I asked Malarie if she's depressed or if she's okay, she's going to get mad at me for thinking she's crazy. Yeah. Which is like not worth it. Like always, if you think something's wrong with your friend or a family member, you should always say something and if they're mad at you then they're mad at you. But at least you know... They know you care about them.
Fanshen Cox (21:26):
Exactly.
Anya Adams (21:26):
That's the baseline of it.
Malarie Howard (21:27):
Definitely, definitely. [.
Fanshen Cox (21:29):
Thank you Malarie.
Anya Adams (21:31):
You can jump to the other question [Laughter].
Fanshen Cox (21:32):
Well, now I just feel like a fool, "what do you like for brunch!" But it is a sister brunch podcast! So, we do like to know if you have any favorite brunch items!!
Anya Adams (21:40):
When you're hanging with your friends!
Malarie Howard (21:40):
Um, uh, I like, uh, I like Aperol spritz! [Laughter].
Anya Adams (21:48):
Yes! high fives on that. [inaudible] I am celebrating in the corner here. It's so good. It's bitter if you like bitter.
Fanshen Cox (22:02):
I don't mind bitter!
New Speaker (22:05):
[SEGMENT BREAK]
Anya Adams (22:05):
If you were to give some girls coming up, or some women who are transitioning from CFO, they want to be a writer. What do you tell them?
Malarie Howard (22:13):
Go with your gut. Just because people look like you doesn't mean they're here for you. Always trust your voice, even if other people don't get it. And be trust that if you put the right people in your life that you trust, when they give you constructive feedback, you should take it and listen to them. But only from people you trust.
Fanshen Cox (22:44):
There you go.
Anya Adams (22:44):
That's very good.
Fanshen Cox (22:47):
The amazing Malarie Howard.