Grace Jordan: Assistant Director

Episode Description:

Grace Jordan is a force to be reckoned with in the film industry. Within the same year of graduating from the 2018 Class of Trainees Directors Guild-Producer Training Plan, a program that trains a select group of people to become Assistant Directors, she has since been highly sought after from local and international film projects.
Prior to seizing the world of film and television, Grace pursued News and Broadcasting in college, interning with WSBTV Channel 2 Action News in Atlanta, Ga. Following the internship, Grace received her bachelor’s degree in Broadcast Journalism from Georgia State University.

It is of no surprise that Grace holds an impressive resume of films and shows she has been recruited for, such as CSI-Vegas, All American: Homecoming, Good Trouble, Atypical, and With Love. It is the harmonious collide of her work ethic, skill, and drive that makes her magnetic to film and television opportunities in Los Angeles and other cities around the country today.

In this episode, Grace shares her journey into becoming an Assistant Director and the roles that come along with it, especially as a Black woman.

TRANSCRIPT:

Fanshen: Hi, Sista Brunch family. I'm Fanshen Cox and I welcome you back to the fifth season of Sista Brunch, the podcast that shares the stories of Black women and gender expansive people thriving in entertainment and media. Basically we are your weekly dose of empowerment through celebrating the incredible journeys of our guests as they navigate the worlds of entertainment and media.

Fanshen: Now, as I said, this is our. Fifth season of Sista Brunch. You can listen to all of our guests on Apple or Spotify podcasts, and you can find transcripts of the show along with all of the guests on our website, Sista Brunch. com. We also encourage you to learn about all of these. Yes. And if you work in the industry, or even if you want to work in the industry, reach out to them, let them know you heard about them on Sista Brunch and see what you can do to support them and their work.

We've also got some really awesome things happening this year for Sista Brunch. [00:01:00] If you haven't caught an episode yet, we are partnering with. Black Girls Film Camp. So we have co hosts for some of our episodes this season who are alumni of the camp. We are making a trip to Sundance. We're going back to the Essence Film Festival, and keep up with us on our social media accounts on Instagram. We're at SistaBrunchPodcast. And we're also on TikTok and YouTube under our production company's platform TruJuLo Media, T R U J U L O Media. So I haven't shared the Sista Brunch origin story for a while and it is directly connected to our guest today.

So a few years ago, our Our show creator Anya Adams was in the Director's Guild of America, the DGA training program. And you're going to learn lots of details about the program from our guest today. But if also if you want a quick primer on that, go back and listen to Lila Mae's episode from the Essence Film Festival [00:02:00] 2023.

But so the, the women of color mentors for the director's guild of America training program started inviting the women of color trainees to meet up outside of the training days to have kind of a more casual and honest conversation about their experiences, which is what we need to do when we're Black women on these sets and on these Hollywood streets.

So Anya started hosting these conversations at her house and they became kind of raucous affairs. Honestly, they're some of my favorite times of the year and the very best of ways. And they include delicious food and not a little bit of alcohol. So they started opening these up after a while to women beyond the DGA.

Anya invited me to one. And I was so excited to be in this community with other women, women who are incredibly powerful. We don't even realize how much they do [00:03:00] on set, how much they are part of the ultimate TV show we watch or the film that we see. And I called Anya afterwards and I was like, we have got to share these women's stories with the world.

So that's how Sista Brunch was born and why I am excited. So, so excited to bring on today's guest because she is not only a DGA training program graduate, she like Anya is killing it. She is highly in demand and has worked on CSI Vegas, All American Homecoming, Good Trouble, Atypical and With Love to name just a few.

By the way, you could also listen to our episode with Isis King where she talks about With Love. So we are. So very excited to have you on. Welcome, Grace Jordan. So we love to have our guests start off by just telling us your journey. You can start from when you were born, from when your parents were born, wherever you want to go back, as far as you want to go back [00:04:00] to tell us how you ended up doing all of this great work that you're doing today.

Grace: Oh, wow. Okay. said when we were born. Well, you know, I'll first say, just to keep it like along the lines of television. I actually got into or started thinking about television in middle school, but it was from a news perspective. I had no idea about the behind the scenes aspect. I wasn't exposed to that, but I used to do the announcements in middle school. And they used to call me, there is a the first African American news anchor in Atlanta, Monica, it was coughing at the time, Monica Pearson.

Fanshen: I love Monica

Grace: yes, I love. Yes. they used to call me that. And so I was like, Ooh, this is something that, I saw between her and Oprah. I was like, I want to do that. And so I want to do news. And so I went to high school the local high school that went to Tri Cities High School had a TV production program. But it was performing arts high school. So I was surrounded by people that it was arts.

It [00:05:00] was, if you could think fame, that was my high school and I was live at WTCHS, you know, that kind of thing. And so they actually had us doing job shadowing. We would go, we had been to Fox five. I remember just different like news stations in Atlanta. And then eventually I went to college, went, with an internship, I ended up landing at Channel 2 where, like, the retiring year of Monica Pearson.

Fanshen: amazing. 

Grace: I was there as an intern, and I was, like, gathering scripts and, you know, doing my own, making my own reels, so somewhere deep in their station's database, like, they have some horrible reels.

Fanshen: Ha ha ha, we gonna find it.

Grace: No, you are not.

Grace: But yeah, so they have a real and I would go with different reporters and do a stand up and you know, just kind of create a real and just there. I realized I love the aspect of the behind the scenes of putting the overall story together or the camera aspect, seeing the behind the scenes of it.

I love that. And I just [00:06:00] realized like my actual love for the hard news every day, wasn't as big as my love for behind the scenes. Like I could tell I was adjacent, like I was adjacent to it. So? With my degree, I end up actually getting into music videos as a PA because between when I was graduating from high school and this time the film industry has started growing here in Atlanta.

Fanshen: Okay. I'm curious. So first of all, I feel like there's this pattern growing where people talk about they were the ones that did the announcements at school and I,

Grace: that's a thing.

Fanshen: I'm starting to, because I've heard it more than once. My generation, we weren't, we didn't do that. I feel like after my generation was like, they started playing music, for us to go, you know, through classes. But then all, yeah. I just started hearing these stories about folks doing the announcement.

So I love that. So we'll say you had this early seed planted. And then also you were in Atlanta and continuing from where you left off. I think that's a really important point to make to our [00:07:00] listeners, especially that you don't have to be located in LA. You don't even necessarily have to be located in Atlanta anymore or these other cities.

But I think that's an important point. Plus. Monica Pearson. So you had all these amazing, and how about your parents? Were your parents in the industry at all?

Grace: No. My mom is actually a para. My dad is a floor leader at a warehouse I would say the closest I had to that was I did have family. I had a family member that was into politics. And so I was a Page for them. And I use that as a way to like, talk to some of the reporters there on campus when I was trying to get I was like, Okay.

Anyway, I get next to a reporter,

Fanshen: That's how, that's how it works, right? That means you're really good at what you're doing. You're

Grace: You know,

Fanshen: do I, yep.

Grace: But as far as at the time, it wasn't someone in, in the business it later on, like we kind of had the same. I do have a family member that is in the business and Around the time that [00:08:00] I was trying to get in I think she was just getting into but she was able to get into a program with NBC and become it was an executive program with them. So it was a little bit different of a path like we both were having our own paths but at the same time And I mean, she progressed and I could have used that card, but I kind of, I was like, I wanted to get in my own and kind of get in my own way.

And after that, I ended up PAing a few music videos, but I also was like, okay, well, I want to get on a set because I knew sets existed like by this time, like from high school to 2011 they shot the Change Up out here. They had shot the first season of Atlanta and I'm like.

They are shooting stuff out here. I remember it like it was such a big thing when Walking Dead was shooting out here because and it's still to this day, like, they had, you know, they were shooting different locations and you would see it and, and I'm like, Ooh, I want to go to that location. Like I, it's a thing for me. Like if I see a location, my family probably like, are like tired of me saying it. And I said, Oh, they shot such and such there. They did this here. I'm that person. And [00:09:00] so I ended up going to Atlanta Film Festival and wherever I could hear, okay, how do you get into the business? I would try to go there. So Atlanta Film Festival actually had PA Academy and Angela Barnes from Sista Brunch was had spoke at Atlanta Film Festival, and she mentioned the DGA trainee program.

Now, at the time, like, the person that was over it, she was like, they're not going to get in of you guys. You guys haven't even had a day on set. And I was like, I heard about this program. I want to get to that. So Angela ended up speaking at Bronx Lens Film Festival.

And I was like, okay, I want to ask her more about this program. So I don't know if I advise anybody do this, but I was like, okay, she's speaking there. And I, knew that it was a little bit more intimate. You could actually talk to people on the panel.

Fanshen: Mm hmm.

Grace: So I paid for a one day pass to go to Bronze Lens Film Festival.

Fanshen: be able to go talk to Miss Barnes and plant those seeds. You are good at planting. I love it.

Grace: yeah, and so I, paid for a one day pass, and she just so happened [00:10:00] to be in the elevator, and I told her, I was like, Hey you spoke about this particular program And I just wanted to know more information about it. Can I get you lunch so I could like pick your brain?

Fanshen: Yes.

Grace: was like, well, you don't have to give me lunch, but am going to the restaurant there. We can go and just chat. So they were taking forever cause she was about to speak. So I was grabbing waiters and not knowing in my brain, I'm solving problems in front of her and basically showing what an AD does. I'm like, I was like, it would took forever for a waiter to get there. And I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to speak to this lady. And I'm not gonna be able to ask any questions if a waiter doesn't get here. So I went and got a waiter, went and got and told them, Hey, we need to get this to go. Could we actually take the plate downstairs? I did not. Right,

Fanshen: She’s watching you like this is what we need.

Grace: And so we were able to have the conversation and everything like that. And then we exchanged information and she was the one that gave me my first. staff PA gig. I ended up interviewing to get a PA gig. I ended up working on season two of Atlanta and she gave me the [00:11:00] information about my first staff PA job and I'm like, I ended up helping her. She had directed an episode of The Quad she was like, do you have time to possibly be a director assistant? I'm saying yes. I am like getting rid of shifts at work. Like i'm giving shifts away. Yes, I will

Fanshen: Come out.

Grace: I will come

Fanshen: Yes, Grace

Grace: We're gonna make this work. I also did that with her so I, like, I did a couple of day playing days and I helped on her episode and then they asked me to come back and PA because they saw me helping her and I was like, sure, you know, I'll come PA. So my first, like, union PA days was because of Angela Barnes.

Fanshen: Oh my goodness. Angela Barnes. We,

Grace: So, Sista Brunch, like,

Fanshen: yes,

Grace: Sista Brunch carried over, before I even got into the program, there is a Sistahood and, and it's felt very much so where you have individuals that would reach down and like, okay, she's trying to get up the ladder. She's clearly trying to get in.[00:12:00] 

Fanshen: I love it.

Grace: And, that's how I got into PA and. I was applying for the program, and once I found out about it, I applied. It took me three times. It, the people who are unicorns and got in one, I'm jealous, but it took me three times.

Fanshen: Yeah. It's a, it's very competitive,

Grace: it's extremely competitive, and after that season, I say it was in God's timing for me because after that season of Atlanta I had the choice. I was like, okay, either I would get into the program or I'm just gonna work like by this time, I started getting a lot of day playing days and I had switched my employment. I was a long term sub. And so I switched where if I day played, I day played. If I wasn't day playing, then I would go sub in a classroom with I'm with students here, so that's what I would do.

Fanshen: were you subbing for any, any classes at all? .

Grace: My last long stint, I was a middle school, a sixth grade long-term sub in middle for middle school students.

Fanshen: Did you do a bachelor's for that? what qualified you to [00:13:00] do that in Atlanta? Is there like a particular program? Do you have to get a certificate or anything?

Grace: You have to at least have an associate's degree and you've had two years of college and you do a certification to be able to become a sub.

Grace: Hi everyone. This is Grace and you are listening to Sista Brunch.

Fanshen: Many, many, many thanks to our amazing patrons on Patreon. Your support lights up our Sista Brunch world. If you love what we do and you want to join this incredible community, head on over to patreon.com/Sista Brunch. That's where you can make a financial contribution to us to keep our podcast going. You can do it for as little as 5 a month. becoming an intern of the show or all the way up to a hundred dollars a month as an executive producer. There are perks there. And if you want to give us even more, we'll take that as well. And we're now tax deductible with our fiscal sponsor, women make [00:14:00] movies. We cannot wait to welcome you into the Sista Brunch family on Patreon.

Fanshen: I Ask that because I mean, here you are Grace. Oh my goodness. I should have known when Lila connected us. Cause I'm like, she's the perfect example in every way. Right. Is that in some ways, when you look at this industry, And especially if your parents weren't involved in the industry at all, or, or even being in Atlanta at that time when things were just starting to kind of build there, how do you possibly know what to do?

Fanshen: Well, you didn't, but you were like, I'm a figure it out. Right? Like I'm going to find, I see all these locations where they're filming all of those. seeds you were planting, and then you go and you meet with Angela and you just represent the thing. You are the thing that you know, they're looking for. And still, it took you three times as it does. Right. And your perseverance and continuing to apply means something [00:15:00] to them as well. And I say that to younger folks all the time is like that first time is you just learning how to do it. You know, that first application is just, Send it in because you need the practice, you know, and they'll recognize your name and they'll start to see you're coming back for more and more. All right. So you get into the program. First

Grace: I get into the program. And so I know in the past, they didn't want you to have too much PA experience, but having gone through the program, you need something. And I came from Atlanta. So I had the choice of New York or LA. And I was like, I don't, with my Atlanta Southern roots, I don't know if I can handle the cold. So I was like, LA it is. So I only applied to LA. And so I got into the LA program and it was a transition because I believe all of my classmates, except for one had already been in the area, had already PA'd in the area, maybe a little bit. [00:16:00] And once they transitioned into the program, they already knew the system out there. They're different. Even if you want to go into SAG rules, it's a SAG zone in LA. And it's, a little bit different here. Like the BG out there are SAG and BG in Atlanta are not. So it's just the background, the background. So all of the, all the people that's walking in the background and not talking, they make the scene look full. It doesn't look like a dead street. Doesn't look like I Am Legend. those people that walk they aren't union. So that was an adjustment.

Fanshen: because, that's a whole group of people that now you're also responsible for as an AD, right?

Grace: Right. And as a trainee, you are also responsible because you could do some of those, those duties.

Fanshen: Okay, okay, interesting. Can you take us through because we haven't done this yet on the show what does that mean like day one? What does it look like day then in the middle of the program? program. [00:17:00] What are your responsibilities? What does it look like when you're actually in the program?

Grace: Sure. Okay. So everybody's journey is similar, but different. So for me, when I first got into the program they let you know, and it's in the application that there are gaps of, you know, when they place you on an assignment. I moved in July and I was placed on my first like I had a day playing assignment in Like September and so it may be something as simple as you're covering someone So it was funny because it was a myself and one of my classmates We were the last two left to meet an assignment, but we were like day playing and so I ended up doing different jobs on different shows for different reasons. Was like, Day Play Queen. I was doing a day here, a day there, but regardless if it was a day or two weeks, it was a day toward my 400 day count. Cause you need 400 days. To graduate 

Fanshen: Will you explain Day Player? I mean, it sounds obvious, right? But yeah.[00:18:00] 

Grace: Absolutely, so Day Player that term also could go for any particular role whether you are a hair stylist or actor or an AD it's basically someone that is hired for maybe a day two days Maybe a week or so usually they are covering for someone else because life happens and people need to be covered at work and so they'll hire someone for just a few days, which is like hilariously similar to subbing hire someone for a

Fanshen: I was going to say, so you're like the substitute teacher of the film world and the TV world.

Grace: Hilarious.

Grace: Yeah, so you're you're basically hired for it for a day. So we call you a Day Player you're playing for a day So yeah,

Fanshen: it. Okay. And when you're in the program, so you said you came in July and you didn't get your first. Assignment until September. Does that mean, and then you said you day played until then.

Grace: I day played until about october [00:19:00] october. I got my first assignment

Fanshen: okay. Got it. because this comes to sustainability financially, right? Like how does one, if you get into the program and you move, you're going to be moving, if you're applying from anywhere, but LA or New York, right. You're going to move to that city. And then. What do you do while you're waiting to be placed somewhere?

So is that where the DGA are they supporting you and getting these Day Player roles up until you're assigned on, on a gig?

Grace: No, actually during that time, I usually would do a background work and also because the stint was so small, if I already worked, then I may go on unemployment for like a couple of months and then go, go to another gig. But usually it was, background work which was as an, yeah, that I remember one day, literally I was, I was On a set as BG

Fanshen: [00:20:00] Okay.

Grace: To Manhattan Beach and cover this particular training. This is before COVID. they're sick. They need to go home. Copy that. So I, fortunately, one of my classmates, this is hilarious because we're sprinkled throughout. One of my classmates was actually, it was their assignment. So I pulled it to the side and said, Hey, Okay. Well, I would just call me I gotta go And she was like, oh, okay And so because I showed up I ended up getting paid for that day and for day

Fanshen: Yes.

Grace: so that worked. I was happy

Fanshen: Can we say that out loud? You're not going to get in trouble for that. No,

Grace: no, because like because if you go if you show up and you go to work like central's gonna Pay you is yeah, they have to pay you. So yeah, but yeah, I know. Yeah, so I had to leave early and they understood I told them hey because I usually don't tell anybody that i'm a trainee either because One of the things we have to do we have to do a background day So that's how I found out like oh wait

Fanshen: I didn't know

Grace: we have to because [00:21:00] were the people that are over background. So you

Fanshen: You should know what it

Grace: should know what you're getting into and what they go through. And the funniest thing about it was I ended up doing it so much that when it switched to me being a trainee and sometimes having to be over them, I knew some of them by name. there is someone that I've definitely had as PA's as AD now that I've worked with. I was a trainee, they were doing background. And so it, it, and it makes it easier because, and it, and also it shows you how. It is a big industry, but also how small it is because a lot of times, like when people are just trying to get into the business period, I always tell them, do background first. If you have absolutely no.

Way to that you have no contacts whatsoever. You have, you don't have like maybe a film festival or something like that. No, one's doing any type of workshops then do background work. If you move to LA do background work first, because then you [00:22:00] also need to see if you actually like the hours, that's one way to know if you really are for it or not. It's because, those hours are nothing to play with.

Fanshen: That's brilliant. That's brilliant. So, so I moved out here as an actor and I did a whole lot of background work and I, I had done theater growing up and so I was like, I want to try film and TV. I couldn't stand it. and you're making me realize right now, that's when I realized I still am really a theater actor being on set for that long being background.

I'll just say actors, I'm sorry. Are basically props. I'm sorry, but like, you know, in theater, you have this long rehearsal process. You're kind of, you tend to be more involved if you're a celebrity, you have more say, but, but background actors, it's tough because you aren't on set the whole day and other times you're on set, but you're just sitting there and I love to your point, just like anything in life before you start.

Being the person in charge, you should know [00:23:00] what it feels like to be the person that has to follow that person's orders, right? And it makes you more sympathetic, it makes you a better person to work with.

Grace: Yeah. So I would do background work and audience work. I'm not going to go into like the shows that I did, but there are some shows where you will sit in the audience they'll, pay you to clap or, the Christmas stuff, they shoot some of that stuff in advance. And so they need people in the audience to clap and share the person that's singing at the parades or whatever. we had to do a day I did beyond a day. And I'm glad I did because like if I have to be frank and honest I had maybe maybe less than a hundred days when I got into the program. So some of that was kind of vital I could kind of see the process I could watch, I can learn. And there have been times where I could, you know, also if I'm going to have to direct BG and tell them where to go, remember, okay, like this is this person's cross or, or remembering where everybody is. So when it's my turn to have to tell people where to go, like remembering some [00:24:00] tricks to, okay, tell this person this so they don't get confused, like how to give adequate directions to tell them where to go, knowing that they're going to ask me when are you going to eat, when are we going to leave and where is the bathroom? Those are the three main questions.

Fanshen: I love

Grace: Like just knowing that kind of stuff. So yeah, I did background work.

Fanshen: Grace this is so helpful. We talked about it with Anya. We've had Shawn Pipkin, you know, all of the amazing OGs from the program and, [00:25:00] you know, the Queens of the industry, even when folks hear the word AD or assistant director, they think it's the assistant. To the director, right? Like, Oh, I'm gonna go get you coffee or I'm gonna order flowers for your mother. Right? No, an assistant director. And you just alluded to it a little bit is you're actually directing. A lot of times you are directing the background, right? You're letting folks know where to go, but also let's talk about the other specifics that the first AD does on set. So now we've talked a little bit through the training program day in the life. What's the day in the life of a first AD?

Grace: Depends on if they are in prep, which is they're preparing for their episode or their film. Or if they are actually filming. So in prep, they're with the director they're going to a lot of meetings. There's tone meetings, there's logistics meeting location scouts. That's when they physically go to look at a location that they're looking at [00:26:00] to film. Them and their key assistant director, they are doing that. They're coming together to make sure that they see everything where they're going to shoot it so they can have all the logistics together so that they can then go schedule the actual episode out like well, you know, of course when we get the thank you writers We have the script now the first AD then, you know, they break down the script and they decide okay All of these particular scenes, I'll just use a bonfire at a beach.

Okay, so we're, you know, there's going to be a bonfire at a beach. Okay, all the scenes where we're going to have the bonfire at a beach we're going to shoot that on this particular day, and this is why. You know, and Some things may be because of location, maybe because of actor availability is a number of reasons, but whatever happens, the first AD, you know, they are scheduling out everything. They get the approval from the unit production manager, UPM, and the producers that [00:27:00] on this particular schedule, they may decide, okay, outside of just the bonfire, what else happens? They go to, Eat at a cafe somewhere. Okay. Well, we can build this cafe on the studio or we can use the studio lots cafe So we'll shoot all of our studio stuff on these days. So like they are scheduling everything and then the key is making the call sheets on every Every day we have this particular piece of paper This is so funny. I'm talking about this because Angela actually was talking about this that bronze This is hilarious

Fanshen: now. Now you're, I love this. I love it.

Grace: This is hilarious they have a call sheet And it lists everything that you're going to shoot for the day. It lists what you're going to shoot the next day at the bottom. It lists all the actors that we're going to have for that day. It lists on the back, all of the crew that, and what time, all the crew need to arrive on the location where crew needs to arrive, where you're going to park all this information, all of the [00:28:00] information that is gathered by the 1st AD and the Key 2nd AD the second, a D, then places it on to this document, which is a call sheet. And the call sheet is dispersed the night before with everything going right. Hopefully, because if something has to change then you get into a blue call sheet You go down there's a list of colors of like if you're going back to blue your day was horrible But yeah, if you have to fix

Fanshen: are you in part to blame for that? if the day kind of, if you all don't make your day, is it on the first AD to make sure that you make your day?

Grace: It's a number of reasons why things happen. Sometimes it's completely out of your control. I would say it's because now I'm I haven't first it yet But from my time in the industry, one of the times is if they're not thinking ahead, like say for instance, if they know that they are the ones that's physically mainly talking to the director outside of like maybe writers and a producer. So they should know [00:29:00] what the director is thinking that, okay, this is. I only need two more shots of this shot if they know we're about to go to another scene The first ad needs to tell the second second, which is what i'll be doing on set Tell me hey, we're going to be going to the next scene What you know making sure that we're all checking the status of the next round of actors. It is an assembly line Yeah, this set of actors here. What is the next set doing? Are they done in Base Camp? Which is Base Camp is the area where the actors are getting ready You have hair makeup wardrobe outside and base care getting them ready and show ready So there should be, okay, we're about to move to the next shot. They will probably tell me, which is my job to let the Base Camp AD know, Hey, we need to go ahead and send the actors up for that so they could already be here and be ready for rehearsal. Because what a smooth and perfect world is the way the next set of actors are right there. The director says, cut, we say moving on [00:30:00] and we go to the next set. And the actors are there and rehearsal starts immediately. That is perfect. That is perfect. Life is great. It doesn't always happen that way, but that, but if they're thinking ahead, that's someone that's seen it or they scheduled it in a way that made sense. If you are, you can't be over ambitious.

Fanshen: Yeah.

Grace: have to have a little faith, but you can't be over ambitious where the day is like this is this is a this Isn't going to happen. This is this day of shock So that's when it's maybe possibly their fault, but you can't control if someone gets sick you can't control if The casting company didn't send the right person You can't control if the location decided to change their mind. You can't control if

Fanshen: You can’t control COVID.

Grace: you cannot, Oh, you

Fanshen: Which, which, my

Grace: COVID taught us one thing. You cannot control it.

Fanshen: that's a,

Grace: You can't control it. You're basically learning on the fly the ad job So you don't want to like do it and then just [00:31:00] quit because it's really not what you want to do Anyway, you want to do it and you know sustain and actually graduate because like we're going to be real. Majority of the time outside of like post COVID, I think they had like 20 something people, but I know my class had 10 people class before me had 15 people. And this is out of like several hundreds. So like, like 1000 people that apply. So it's only so few spots. So if you want, like, you really need to do it if you're going if you're if you want to a D. And that's something like, you I was like, this is a, along my path. This is something I wanted to be on set. Being an AD on set helped me to be able to talk to, and, and get in contact with a lot of departments and to be able to learn the overall business in general, like learning, like how is a set supposed to run being an AD does that, but of course, like, like I said, the program you're learning on the fly. So it, it's a sacrifice.

Fanshen: And not to mention we need [00:32:00] Black women, ADs, Black women, gender expansive ADs, right? Like this is a person who is highly visible on sets and it matters when we see ourselves, right? We see ourselves doing that role and it, that matters to the actors. It matters to the hair and makeup. folks, it matters to the producers, like to see Black women in these roles. And I know the DGA training program is not only for Black women, but you know, that's what we, but like to see that really, really makes a difference. And so, yes. And, and Lila made that point is like, don't apply unless that's the thing that you want to do, because that's what you're going to learn how to do. and the DGA is investing.

Grace: Yeah. 

Fanshen: You've done a lot of TV and the TV you've done, a lot of the shows you've done have had this kind of like diversity inclusion. sensibility to them, at least the storylines you've done, all American homecoming, you've done Good Trouble, Atypical, right? There's certainly the kind of [00:33:00] stories that I, at my production company support and want, to have more of. So I'm curious, does that translate to the behind the scenes? Like we see it in the cast. As honest and true. I know we're not having a real Sista brunch with the alcohol but this is one of the things we talk about right is like does it just look good and then When you're doing it to the extent that you can share about that.

Grace: So I love when shows take pictures of their crew. because when they take, pictures of their crew, it tells you everything. Because we are not there yet. I can't tell you the amount of times I have been in Base Camp and I had to give a certain level of no pun intended grace.Because I'm like, I [00:34:00] know that this particular talent. May not have like the proper. 

Fanshen: You being so nice you working you working really

Grace: the consideration for diverse talent was not considered. And so I know that it's taking, a lot of time because the actor is having to say, Hey, that color is not right. And I've also have had to I remember a very specific time, won't name the show where someone was trying to say that the actor was being difficult.

And so I said, did they yell? Did they say something snarky? What, like, because I didn't hear any yelling. I didn't hear any rude comments. actor asking a question, especially when it comes to something that's on their face is not a difficult actor, that's them speaking up for themselves.

And [00:35:00] that's why to this day, if I hear about a difficult, especially when it's a Black woman, a difficult Black actress I really don't participate in that conversation because I'm like, at this point, I really need to have seen that person for myself. I need to have experienced that person myself.

So really be like, okay, yeah, they're not the easiest to work with because sometimes it's directness is considered difficult. And that's not true

Fanshen: every time, every time it's us, right. Anytime it's us, right. It's just our face sometimes. Just

Grace: Right. Right. and there have been times where like I've had, especially like younger talent, like telling us around like my age, like we, we probably were in high school around the same time. We're probably, you know, college around the same time and everything like that. I've definitely had some of them and I could just tell them like, Just letting you know you're in good hands.

I just give them like the, when they first arrive to Base Camp, Hey, how are you? Glad you here. Just letting you know [00:36:00] you're in good hands. And that's like code for you are covered.

Fanshe: I got you.

Grace: They got you here. You're gonna be fine.

Fanshen: If the call you difficult, there's somebody here who can help translate

Grace: or like

Fanshen: difficult.

Grace: Right that or or knowing that they have the talent that values knowing their hair or knowing their your skin tone And and I know when they leave the trailer, they're not gonna like half, you know, they're not gonna Be questioning. Okay, do I look good or anything like that? I do it. Do I look crazy? I'm like you're in good hands. Go ahead and go into the go ahead and go to the trailer. You're fine.

Fanshen: that speaks to the value of the program. And, this is why we did the podcast was because I was doing inclusion work and saying, you know, you need to commit to hiring underrepresented people. And the response being, well, we can't find them. And here you all are. And the, and the, Training program is, is creating more of you, but there's plenty already. Okay. 

Hey, it's Fanshen and you're listening to Sista Brunch. We'll be right [00:37:00] back. And during this quick break, if you haven't already done this, go ahead and follow us on Instagram at Sista Brunch podcast.

That's something that you can go on the DGA and look up what, right, right. And I think that's, that's important. That's an important piece of a guild or a union membership is you don't have to guess at that. You will know what salary you're making. But I wonder if you have any, any comments on salaries other than that.

Grace: I would say this is funny because when you're in Base Camp and you may have to do people's time cards, I didn't notice a difference. And like, I, I think like there is a base salary, there is a base salary, but how people do their. Financials is kind of a little bit like when you become first and going on up. So when I started noticing different things, I was like, well, I need to start having conversations with different people. Like, why did you do it this way? Or are they negotiating, like even something as far as like negotiating to direct the episodes. There is the base. And then I know [00:38:00] that other people are having conversations and that's just like the brief exposure. I'm not like, I, like I said, December would make two years for me as an AD. I haven't seen everything. I'm still growing. But just a little time as a trainee and having to do our paperwork as time cards.

If you're in Base Camp, most of the time you have to do the time cards for the entire team and just noticing, Oh, this person has a business. And this person just receiving like small stuff like that. I'm like, okay, I need to have a conversation with them and find out why don't you do this this way and think things like that. Yeah. That's, that's a different.

Fanshen: The higher up you go on that call sheet, the more negotiable your, your salary is, and that's a good thing, right? is okay when you get to a certain point and, and like what's happening with Grace, she's getting on these. Projects and doing such a great job on the project that people are calling her back in. And the more people call you back in, the more you can start to plant some seeds [00:39:00] around what you're going to get paid if you can go above the scale. But the good thing is there is a scale. You you're protected in that sense. All right. So Grace, our final question, you and young Grace. are sitting down to Sista Brunch. What are you both eating and what are you both drinking? And what do you tell her?

Grace: This is hilarious. Okay, so younger me is probably eating pizza. I still love pizza. I don't care how old I get is pizza, but she's definitely in those probably a slice of pizza and she's probably drinking. Okay, either way it goes if they have boba tea there. I am like a boba tea like I'm like so both both ages, it's probably gonna be some boba tea, but

Fanshen: This might be the first guest that's eating exactly the same thing. Both you and the younger you. I love that.

Grace: That's not healthy. But like the older me is probably [00:40:00] like balancing it out with sweet greens or something like that And the younger person is like doing the pizza but I still like I still kill pizza like like at least once a month

Fanshen: it. It's a special occasion. It's a

Grace: Exactly. Exactly

Fanshen: Nothing wrong with it.

Grace: But yeah,

Fanshen: the extra salad dressing and a bit two pieces of bread on the side you gonna make your own pizza You just make your own pizza from sweet greens. I love it. I love it

Grace: but yeah, I really love some boba tea. Like my family would say that too. My friends know that that's something like I absolutely like love. So both of us would probably have that. One would probably have like a. The smaller one because balance it.

Fanshen: Yes. Yes. Good And what are you telling her?

Grace: To not stress so much and to pay attention to the lessons along the way. There have been moments where I'm like, I don't want to go through this. This [00:41:00] is horrible. But the biggest thing that you can. hAve is experience. There's so many reasons why I've learned about different things on set because of the experience experience is valuable. So pay attention to the lessons, always have a mind of curiosity, always, no matter how far you go, always have a mindset of learning. You can never stop learning. We could have the same conversation 10 years from now, and I'm gonna say, I'm still learning no one knows everything. You always have to be at a position of, of learning 

Fanshen: Grace Jordan. Thank you so much for coming on Sista Brunch. We're so glad to have you.

Grace: Thank you for having me It was a pleasure. 

Fanshen: Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Sista Brunch. As we wrap up, remember that your story, just like our guests, is your [00:42:00] superpower. Carry it proudly and share it. everywhere you can. We always appreciate your support by subscribing to the podcast, leaving us a great review and sharing it with your friends, family, colleagues, and community. 

Sista Brunch is brought to you by TruJuLo Productions. I, Fanshen Cox, am one of the show creators along with Anya Adams, Cristabel Nsiah-Buadi, and Brittany Turner. We acknowledge the land I record our podcast on is the original land of the Tongva and the Chumash people. We love and appreciate you all. Talk to you in the next one