Felischa Marye: It’s Not a Straight Shot to the Top
Episode Description:
Felischa Marye is a TV writer. She’s also the creator and co-executive producer of “Bigger,” the hit comedy series on BET+ comedy series which recently got picked up for a second season. Felischa left a successful career in public relations and marketing to move to attend UCLA’s MFA in screenwriting program. While she was in school, she sold a pilot to HBO and was later staffed for two seasons on Netflix’s 13 REASONS WHY. Listen as she tells Anya and Fanshen why she waited to chase her Hollywood dreams, the day she met Eric Monte, the writer of the classic film COOLEY HIGH, how she keeps representation of race and class authentic and so much more.
Music Credits: Stock Media provided by AudioKraken / Pond5 Stock Media provided by BenBeats / Pond5
Transcript:
Anya (00:07):
(Music.)
Anya (00:12):
Hey, hey, what's up? Welcome to Sista Brunch, my name is Anya Adam.
Fanshen (00:15):
And I'm Fanshen Cox and this is Sista Brunch. We are the place where Black women plus working in media entertainment share how we are making our marks, that's what we're here for.
Anya (00:27):
That's right. So get ready to hear some great stories, amazing stories about women breaking into the industry and navigating through the deep, dark corners of-
Fanshen (00:38):
Yes [inaudible 00:00:38]
Anya (00:38):
And the circles and the whatever they got to go through to make it in the industry, and also, it's a place for you to find inspiration. So to hear about these women talk about their lives, how they got to where they are and how you can follow in their footsteps in you're looking to do that.
Fanshen (00:53):
Yes. Our guest today is Felischa Marye. She's a TV writer... yes, yes. She's a TV writer and the creator and co-executive producer of Bigger. It's a comedy series on BET Plus, which is... I got to get into all of those.
Anya (01:09):
Okay.
Fanshen (01:10):
And she worked for a very long time in PR and marketing in Chicago, then she moved to LA to attend UCLA's MFA screenwriting program. That's where she started her big ol' industry career and we're going to learn lots more, but while in film school, I mean, this is... I don't know how you all... while in film school, she sold a pilot to HBO. So just there-
Felischa (01:34):
You may have heard of them. You may have heard of HBO.
Fanshen (01:37):
Later got staffed on Netflix's 13 Reasons Why.
Anya (01:40):
She's making you cry y'all.
Felischa (01:43):
I love to make... I love to cry and laugh. I love to cry and laugh.
Anya (01:45):
Yes. All right, so Felischa's show Bigger, about a group of Black women in Atlanta on the quest for bigger, more meaningful lives is a reflection of her own journey to fulfilling her lifelong dream of becoming a writer.
Fanshen (01:56):
Yes.
Anya (01:57):
Welcome, welcome.
Fanshen (01:58):
Welcome.
Felischa (01:59):
Thank you.
Fanshen (01:59):
Yes.
Felischa (01:59):
Thank you. Good to be hear.
Fanshen (02:00):
So speaking of dreaming big, at some point, you were a little girl somewhere in the world.
Felischa (02:06):
I was born-
Fanshen (02:07):
Did you already have dreams about what you would eventually do?
Felischa (02:11):
I think my first dream was to be a bus driver. Once I got past that after being ignored by every adult when I would bring that up, my first dream was to be an actress and television, I grew up, I have a lovely sister that... this is a hood story, we met later in life. My father's other daughter.
Fanshen (02:29):
Okay. [crosstalk 00:02:30]
Felischa (02:29):
I was raised an only child. So the television was my brother, sister, best friend and I just wanted to be the people on the TV. I didn't know people made TV and what that looked like, but that was my first dream.
Fanshen (02:42):
Wow.
Anya (02:43):
What were some of your favorite shows?
Felischa (02:45):
Good Times.
Anya (02:46):
Yes.
Felischa (02:46):
Probably number one. All in the Family. Anything from that vein, Facts of Life and then getting older, I started to like Friends and Living Single. I call Friends the White Living Single, because it is. So I love those shows.
Anya (03:05):
Yeah.
Felischa (03:05):
In the 90s and Martin-
Fanshen (03:07):
Yes.
Felischa (03:07):
A Different World and so many and then as I matured, Sex in the City was a favorite and-
Anya (03:13):
Yeah.
Felischa (03:14):
Still to this day is a big inspiration.
Fanshen (03:16):
I mean, can we just point out that those were shows were you saw people that looked like you-
Felischa (03:20):
Yes.
Fanshen (03:21):
Even as far as back as we could go, right? When we were young and I think about, "Oh my goodness, what if we hadn't even had those." Right?
Felischa (03:30):
Oh my god. I wouldn't be here. I mean, if it wasn't for... I told Eric Monte, who was the co-creator of Good Times-
Fanshen (03:36):
Yes.
Felischa (03:36):
Writer of Cooley High, which is one of my [crosstalk 00:03:39]
Fanshen (03:38):
Yes.
Felischa (03:41):
Of all time and he's had a stroke later in life, and I was able to meet him at a guild meeting, a WGA meeting, the Committee of Black Writers meeting and a couple of times in... I told him if he didn't jump that train, because he jumped a train to get here from Chicago-
Fanshen (03:56):
What?
Felischa (03:57):
And that's how... part of that story in Cooley High of Preach's story is his story.
Fanshen (04:01):
Wow.
Felischa (04:01):
About being this elevated young man with these dreams and these gifts, this gift of writing in the hood and then him escaping. Just even knowing that backstory, which I learned later, but if he... I think I saw his story through his writing and just because I lived in Chicago, Good Times was in Chicago.
Fanshen (04:22):
Yes, yes.
Felischa (04:23):
Or about Chicago.
Fanshen (04:24):
Yes.
Felischa (04:25):
So yeah, that was as subtle influence that in retrospect, meeting him as an adult, I realized, "Wow, I think if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be here right now talking to you."
Anya (04:34):
That's amazing.
Fanshen (04:35):
Somebody was on Twitter talking about what are Black famous people... list Black famous people that have if you sent them to a White person, they would never know. Cooley High is one of those examples of a film that-
Felischa (04:47):
Yes.
Fanshen (04:49):
Right? And it's so important. It's integral to us seeing ourselves-
Felischa (04:53):
Absolutely.
Fanshen (04:53):
And then also us knowing that... because then, how did you make the leap from seeing it on a screen to knowing how to do it yourself?
Felischa (05:03):
Oh yeah. I think it's just... like I said, I didn't know that there were writers of the show when I was watching the show as a kid, so at some point, when I just knew... what I could see are actors, so that became my obsession. So in undergrad, I did study acting. I auditioned for the theater program there, got in, studied acting, thought I would do it professionally, but somewhere along the line... I was raised by my great-grandparents-
Anya (05:28):
Oh wow.
Felischa (05:29):
My parents, product of the 60s kind of got caught up in drugs and alcohol and unfortunately, weren't able to raise me and the matriarch of the family was my great-grandmother, my mother's grandmother.
Anya (05:40):
Wow.
Felischa (05:41):
So because of the generational gap, I did watch a lot of television to stay current, otherwise, I would have been out here bad. But then they just let me do me, because they were like, "You going to school past eighth grade is good."
Fanshen (05:54):
Just keep going. Yeah.
Felischa (05:55):
Keep going.
Fanshen (05:56):
Yeah.
Felischa (05:56):
So I had a freedom, but it's interesting that I put these own... we deal with our parent's influences in Bigger, but mine, I didn't have a lot of parental influence. I actually put limitations on myself. I'm like, "How am I going to live as an actress? How does that work?"
Fanshen (06:11):
Yeah.
Felischa (06:12):
I got super scared about it at 19, and I was just like, "I can't do that. I need a real job when I get out of here." So I switched to broadcast journalism, not knowing that that's damn near not a real job either, but-
Fanshen (06:22):
Right.
Felischa (06:24):
Oh, I'm on a podcast talking about journalism [inaudible 00:06:26]
Fanshen (06:25):
Too late [crosstalk 00:06:28] by the way, so... [crosstalk 00:06:30]
Felischa (06:32):
No, I mean you start off low pay, lowly pay. It's a struggle.
Anya (06:34):
Right.
Fanshen (06:34):
These are all the facts, but no [crosstalk 00:06:36]
Felischa (06:36):
No, but it's true because the rejection factor isn't there as much as it is for an actor-
Anya (06:40):
For an actor, right? Sure.
Fanshen (06:42):
You can get something.
Felischa (06:43):
You can find a job. I got the internship at a news station.
Fanshen (06:47):
Right, right.
Felischa (06:48):
It felt tangible to me. It felt like, "Okay, you're getting a paycheck that I know should be coming every two weeks." So I did that, that's how that led to closely related as PR to journalism, so that's how I got into PR.
Fanshen (06:59):
Okay.
Felischa (07:00):
So it was like lived this safe life. This feels stable. I could not find my space because it wasn't where I wasn't supposed to be.
Fanshen (07:06):
Right. Yes.
Felischa (07:06):
So I kept running from... so I would see sets in Chicago and want to cry.
Anya (07:12):
Oh wow.
Felischa (07:12):
Just get emotional and I was like, "Oh god, that's-"
Fanshen (07:14):
What's going on with me?
Felischa (07:14):
So that's not going to go away. I would watch the Oscars and have two elaborate Oscar parties just because I wanted to be there, you know what I mean?
Fanshen (07:22):
Wow.
Felischa (07:22):
So yeah, no, I just had this hunger for it and I realized by my mid 30s, which partially inspired the idea of Bigger. In my mid 30s, that's when I started to hit that early mid life crisis of I can't do this anymore. I can't fake it. There's nothing I can inquire that will make me happy. It felt good to say no and walk away and then move to LA with a roommate, that old-
Fanshen (07:43):
Yes.
Felischa (07:44):
You know what I mean?
Fanshen (07:45):
Yes. Right.
Anya (07:48):
So how... do you mind saying how old-
Felischa (07:51):
I would say this journey started in my mid 30s.
Anya (07:53):
Yeah.
Felischa (07:53):
So I was pretty up there by the time I was applying to film school.
Anya (07:57):
Right. Which is a-
Fanshen (07:58):
Yeah.
Anya (07:59):
I think awesome thing-
Fanshen (07:59):
Yeah.
Anya (08:00):
I think for our listeners to hear, this can happen at any age.
Fanshen (08:03):
Yes.
Felischa (08:04):
Yes, absolutely.
Anya (08:04):
Keep following your heart.
Felischa (08:04):
Absolutely.
Anya (08:05):
Your passion, you're going to come to it.
Felischa (08:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Anya (08:08):
Which is wonderful.
Anya (08:09):
(Music.)
Anya (08:14):
So we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back with more of our conversation with the PR maven turned show creator, Felischa Marye.
Anya (08:21):
(Music.)
Fanshen (08:38):
And here we are, you're listening to Sista Brunch with Anya Adams and Fanshen Cox, here's more of our conversation with Felischa Marye. One good thing about being older and coming into the industry... well "older" right? What Hollywood considers older-
Felischa (08:53):
Yes.
Fanshen (08:53):
Right? Is that you now are bringing all this other experience. I think about Ava, that she... Ava DuVernay who was also in PR and marketing and not meant that once she started to be able to tell her stories, she knew how to do... she not only told a story, but knew how to get people into it. I can imagine that helped you in pitching for your [crosstalk 00:09:12] right?
Fanshen (09:13):
Those things you did, even though you knew they weren't the thing.
Anya (09:15):
Yeah.
Fanshen (09:16):
Those also fed you-
Felischa (09:18):
Absolutely.
Fanshen (09:18):
For what you eventually did.
Felischa (09:19):
I had no idea that they would.
Anya (09:20):
Yeah.
Felischa (09:20):
I didn't think about that.
Fanshen (09:21):
At the time, you're like [crosstalk 00:09:22]
Felischa (09:22):
I thought it was deficit.
Fanshen (09:23):
Right.
Felischa (09:23):
Age, I thought it was a deficit. I didn't move out here at 22 and start-
Anya (09:26):
Right.
Felischa (09:26):
This career.
Fanshen (09:27):
Yeah.
Felischa (09:28):
But it actually was a benefit in so many ways.
Anya (09:31):
Yeah.
Felischa (09:31):
Number one, like you said, pitching, I was able to sell something in film school like a pilot-
Fanshen (09:39):
Yes.
Felischa (09:39):
In film school because I was... that was my first pitch, I didn't have reps yet or anything. That was because I pitched things I hated.
Anya (09:47):
Yeah.
Felischa (09:47):
Things I didn't care about.
Anya (09:48):
Right. [crosstalk 00:09:48]
Fanshen (09:48):
Buy this [crosstalk 00:09:48]
Felischa (09:48):
I don't give a shit about.
Fanshen (09:48):
Yeah.
Felischa (09:48):
You know what I'm saying?
Anya (09:52):
You can step into a room and be comfortable.
Felischa (09:54):
Yeah, yeah. I was nervous as hell, but-
Anya (09:56):
Yeah. Yeah.
Felischa (09:57):
I knew how to pull out a story on why something is important.
Anya (10:01):
Yes.
Felischa (10:01):
Or why something should be-
Fanshen (10:02):
See that's powerful and the thing... I don't even think people will appreciate too, a Black woman dong that, because we already have the we don't see ourselves, or they're going to say this, or and it could be our own mind and a lot of times, it's also just what we see reflected, but I just love knowing that you had that much confidence still in school, to pitch your pilot and them buy it. [crosstalk 00:10:26]
Felischa (10:25):
Well you know, she said we'd like you to pitch this and I said, "Well I guess I'm going to have to pitch this." I was afraid.
Fanshen (10:32):
You're like-
Felischa (10:33):
You know what I'm saying?
Fanshen (10:33):
Yeah.
Felischa (10:33):
It was a-
Fanshen (10:33):
Yes.
Felischa (10:35):
A chance encounter, I mean through a fellowship that I was in with Film Independent that I met this executive.
Fanshen (10:40):
Love Film Independent.
Felischa (10:41):
Yes, that's a project [crosstalk 00:10:42] they had a panel discussion with HBO execs one day and there was lunch after and I met one of the comedy execs, who is the head of comedy now there, who's fabulous woman and she liked me.
Fanshen (10:56):
Yes.
Felischa (10:57):
I was like, "Feet don't fail me now, I got to be charming." [crosstalk 00:10:59] right next to me.
Fanshen (10:59):
Yes.
Felischa (11:01):
And she brought me in for a meeting and read my material, which at the time, I only had drama. I wanted to be a comedy writer, but I was testing out what I wanted to be and I had this dark drama where someone dies at the end, and that's what they read, but she obviously saw a voice [inaudible 00:11:15]
Anya (11:14):
Good writing.
Felischa (11:15):
Yeah.
Fanshen (11:15):
Yeah, that's... yes, yes, yes.
Felischa (11:18):
Thank you.
Fanshen (11:18):
Well we had... our other writer that we've had so far... so I love this, we heard this theme of your voice, the importance of your own voice, and now that we know a little bit about your background growing up, we know that that's what you did on Bigger.
Felischa (11:33):
Yes.
Fanshen (11:33):
Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Felischa (11:35):
Yes, it's that idea of is this it? There are a lot of shows that talk to millennials and a lot of shows... it's like millennials figuring out, but it really is millennials figuring out... millennials aren't getting older, so my whole thing was, "Hey millennials, they're not that same 30, 28 year old millennial."
Fanshen (11:56):
Party of Five.
Felischa (11:56):
"I'm still living at home and..." yeah exactly. They're looking 40 in the face-
Anya (12:00):
Yeah.
Felischa (12:00):
So what does that mean and I know what it meant for me, and that's what we gave to the main character Elaine, who in the pilot, we meet her in her life, she's walked away from her corporate job and is trying to make her small business survive of her vintage shop. So it's a... and then all of her friends are a different point of their bigger, wondering if there's something bigger and better in life, or is this really it?
Fanshen (12:24):
Right.
Felischa (12:26):
Especially in a city like Atlanta, which is like the baby Hollywood now, as it relates to... and not just people in entertainment, everything. It's like people move there to make their dreams come true. Have a big house to... and so there's this thing that I feel like was LA a long time ago, that is there now, which is this even if you live there, you feel this pressure to be great. Sometimes that could be a fruitless chase because what does being great mean? Are we chasing something shallow? Are we chasing something meaningful? So that's the question of the show too. Is this worth... is this bigger going to make you happy or not? Is... for even in both career and in personal life, because bigger means a little something else ladies, wink, wink.
Anya (13:12):
Well.
Felischa (13:14):
Can you... you know, do you just settle for what's not bigger because it's comfortable and safe.
Fanshen (13:19):
Right.
Felischa (13:19):
Or feel safe like a job, or something else.
Fanshen (13:22):
Or something else.
Christabel (13:23):
It sounds like... this is Chris, it sounds like what you're saying is that... is it a case of doing what you can with what you have?
Felischa (13:29):
Exactly.
Fanshen (13:30):
Okay.
Felischa (13:31):
Or striving for more, and guess what I don't have? The answer and that's why I love the show.
Fanshen (13:36):
Yes.
Anya (13:36):
Right.
Felischa (13:36):
Because it's exploration. I'm literally asking the same question today in my own life.
Fanshen (13:41):
What a beautiful thing to not supply all the answers.
Christabel (13:44):
Yes.
Felischa (13:45):
Yeah.
Fanshen (13:45):
To tell us that it's okay to not know-
Felischa (13:47):
Yeah.
Fanshen (13:48):
To not have all the answers.
Felischa (13:48):
Unless-
Anya (13:49):
And it still-
Felischa (13:49):
All play with the idea of it and figure it out.
Anya (13:52):
It's also fascinating to watch all these different people going for that-
Felischa (13:56):
Yes.
Anya (13:57):
You can see those different pieces in your life-
Felischa (13:59):
Yes.
Anya (13:59):
Of like... yeah, I think that's fantastic.
Felischa (14:01):
Yes, thank you.
Fanshen (14:02):
So I'm so curious, because we talk a lot about how challenging it is to often be the only one in the room, right? And what that... the ways that it messes with our own brain and limits us, but I'm imagining with BET Plus, I hope you are not the only one in the room when-
Felischa (14:19):
Oh never.
Fanshen (14:20):
Right? Okay good, because you never know. Just because it's-
Felischa (14:23):
I'm one of many.
Fanshen (14:25):
Good.
Felischa (14:25):
Yeah, our writer's room was Black. We had a writer's assistant that was not Black that did get an episode, but in terms of our... she did a great job, episode nine did Brianna probably would know what she is [crosstalk 00:14:37]
Fanshen (14:36):
From the name.
Fanshen (14:39):
I love it.
Felischa (14:39):
But she did a great episode, she was our writer's assistant, but the actual writing staff, 100% Black writing staff. Of course, BET, our development execs are Black. So we didn't have to have that... we didn't have to... they got it.
Fanshen (14:55):
You didn't have to explain anything.
Felischa (14:55):
The Blackness of it.
Anya (14:55):
Let me ask you this, was it hard for you to find Black writers?
Felischa (15:01):
No.
Anya (15:02):
Oh that's so funny because we always [crosstalk 00:15:03]
Felischa (15:03):
Everybody else it is, right?
Christabel (15:05):
But they tell us it's so hard.
Anya (15:05):
It wasn't hard for you to find-
Christabel (15:07):
They tell us it's so-
Anya (15:07):
Staff an entire room of talented Black writers?
Felischa (15:11):
We met with many very talented-
Anya (15:14):
Well you've met with many?
Christabel (15:15):
There are many?
Felischa (15:16):
Many out here [crosstalk 00:15:17] have worked.
Anya (15:18):
How did you find them?
Felischa (15:18):
I don't know it's weird. We just sort of said, "We're opening a room."
Fanshen (15:23):
Okay.
Felischa (15:25):
Well we know Black writers being Black, so they... our showrunner, our marvelous showrunner Devon Shepard, having come up through Everybody Hates Chris and he did the third season of Being Mary Jane, and from Weeds, you know?
Fanshen (15:40):
Yes.
Felischa (15:40):
He helped develop Dear White... he came from that, so he's met a lot of people on his journey. So he knows a lot of... so if people knew Black people-
Fanshen (15:49):
So we're out here.
Felischa (15:50):
Yes [inaudible 00:15:50]
Fanshen (15:50):
Yes. We exist.
Felischa (15:51):
That's definitely-
Fanshen (15:52):
Many.
Felischa (15:53):
Not a problem.
Christabel (15:54):
That's fantastic.
Fanshen (15:54):
Now, were there things that are surprising to you about now that you're finally in the room with us, that you're like, "Oh, this could be a drawback." You know? Is there anything like that?
Felischa (16:07):
No, and I did like having someone in the room, like I said, our writer's assistant was Caucasian and I did like having someone in the room, because we didn't want to villainize our White character.
Anya (16:17):
Sure.
Fanshen (16:17):
Yeah.
Felischa (16:17):
Because you know like in the 70s, it'd be like the White person in the room [inaudible 00:16:22] is trying to talk jive or-
Fanshen (16:25):
Right.
Felischa (16:25):
We didn't want to do that.
Anya (16:26):
Right.
Fanshen (16:26):
Yes.
Felischa (16:27):
I think we've come too far for that. So we wanted to give honesty, what is intention?
Anya (16:32):
Sure.
Felischa (16:32):
Sometimes, I mean yeah, we have the alt right and those idiots and we have straight up racists, but then we have a lot of liberal people thinking they're doing well, think they're doing it, you know? And they're not telling it.
Anya (16:43):
Yeah.
Felischa (16:45):
We wanted to [crosstalk 00:16:46] we're not done at all. So we wanted to deal with that-
Christabel (16:49):
That's great and that is-
Felischa (16:50):
And still be honest about it. She didn't mean... she thought she was doing something.
Christabel (16:55):
I love that you're hitting that because that's something that we don't see a lot on television and it is true. It's like, let's take a look at the folks that think they're really making a difference when they're really not, because it's not thoughtful. It's about themselves.
Fanshen (17:07):
Yes.
Christabel (17:08):
It's about me or you. There's that thought process and that's fantastic.
Felischa (17:11):
And with that, because we had this yoga chick, I'll call yoga chick. She's called something else in the show. Who's White and problematic, liberal and also wanted to play with the idea like when we talk about gentrification and that's the conflict in which we deal with this yoga chick, who is pushing back on some of the... like a homeless guy, Black homeless guy in this neighborhood where Elaine, the main character, who's Black, owns a shop. It's set in Little Five Points, which is very gentrified-
Fanshen (17:45):
Okay.
Felischa (17:45):
Community, it's... just think Echo Park, you know what I mean? Chicago, Bucktown, but whatever the case, just this idea that how are we different? Because class is really what gentrification's about, right?
Fanshen (18:00):
Yes.
Felischa (18:01):
So at the point, like in Chicago, I was moving in Bronzeville and hoping the crack heads moved out. You know? How am I different from Christy, the yoga chick.
Anya (18:08):
Right, right, right.
Felischa (18:09):
Exactly.
Felischa (18:10):
We try to villainize them-
Fanshen (18:11):
We gentrify, right?
Felischa (18:13):
But it's really, we just [inaudible 00:18:15] yeah.
Fanshen (18:15):
Right.
Felischa (18:15):
So we deal with that and what ways-
Fanshen (18:19):
This is on BET Plus? I'm excited.
Anya (18:21):
Girl, let's get this out on HBO. This needs to get out. This is Sista Brunch with Fanshen Cox and Anya Adams. We'll be back in a moment.
Anya (18:30):
(Music.)
Anya (18:46):
Did you know what this is? Were you asking? Were you in your head like, "What is this?" I'm going to tell you, it's Sista Brunch with Anya Adams and Fanshen Cox. Now back to our interview. This is so tough for us, right? We need BET. We need TV One. We need our places to tell our stories-
Fanshen (19:03):
Sure.
Anya (19:03):
And at the same time, our stories are universal. These are not-
Fanshen (19:09):
That's right.
Anya (19:09):
We're human beings just like everybody else. What do we do with that now when we're in this period where there's so much content available? Where do we want to put our stories and did you think about that when you were pitching Bigger? Where you wanted it to be.
Felischa (19:23):
No, it kind of happened the other way around. I had a general meeting with Will Packer's company-
Anya (19:31):
Okay.
Felischa (19:32):
That ended up turning into a meaning about a conversation that Will Packer had with the head of BET about a Friends show.
Anya (19:41):
Oh okay.
Felischa (19:41):
It started there and it was developing something for regular BET, but then down the line, they said that this would actually go on a new platform that'll be launching, this will be streaming, which was music to my ears because I'm more of a streaming platformer or premium.
Felischa (19:56):
Yeah. More latitude, censorship is not my friend and not my voice.
Anya (20:03):
Okay. Okay.
Christabel (20:04):
So I have a question.
Felischa (20:04):
Yes.
Christabel (20:04):
Because we jumped into Bigger-
Felischa (20:05):
Yes.
Christabel (20:05):
We need to talk about it more, but I want to ask you about... so from school, you sold HBO pilot-
Felischa (20:11):
Yes.
Christabel (20:13):
And now you're doing Bigger, so what happened in between that time? Did you work in some rooms?
Felischa (20:17):
I worked in... I basically right after I sold the pilot, I got a day job for a while and when it didn't go... that's another thing-
Christabel (20:26):
What did you do?
Anya (20:26):
Yeah, what did you do?
Felischa (20:27):
I went back to a... this felt backwards like hell, and I was very in my feelings about it and I'm real honest about it, and it's a part of Bigger, the back and forth of things. Just because you go after your dream, doesn't mean it's straight line to the top. You know what I'm saying?
Anya (20:41):
Yeah.
Felischa (20:42):
Because I was like, "Inwards I made it." When I sold the pilot [crosstalk 00:20:46]
Fanshen (20:46):
Of course. Yes.
Felischa (20:48):
[crosstalk 00:20:48] then it's like a year it was like, "Oh, it ain't going to be no show though." The money's gone and I'm about to graduate from UCLA. Wow. Oh, I just graduated.
Fanshen (21:00):
Bills.
Felischa (21:01):
So bills in six months, I'm going to have to pay. So I actually for about a year and a half worked at an ad agency doing PR-
Fanshen (21:08):
Okay.
Felischa (21:09):
Was miserable, no disrespect to the agency-
Anya (21:11):
No. No.
Felischa (21:11):
I was miserable-
Fanshen (21:11):
Wasn't for you.
Felischa (21:12):
Yeah, but-
Christabel (21:14):
Did you do stuff at night?
Felischa (21:15):
But the lord was on my side too [crosstalk 00:21:16] because-
Fanshen (21:16):
Always coming through, the lord.
Felischa (21:19):
I was like, "I'm going to take a low level so I'm not overworked, so I can write [inaudible 00:21:23]" all that, so I did a manager level, didn't even put VP on my resume, so that they would actually don't think I'm overqualified and like, "Oh yeah, I'm hide out and act like a 20 year old."
Anya (21:33):
This is a case of a Black woman dumbing herself down.
Felischa (21:34):
I dumbed myself down, well down, like, "Oh, I don't know how to do that." And then, the boss who created that unit of PR at this ad agency quit in a month, two months, she literally just [crosstalk 00:21:47]
Anya (21:46):
And you [crosstalk 00:21:47]
Felischa (21:46):
They're looking at me, I'm like, "No, I'm not doing it." I told them, "I'm not..."
Fanshen (21:51):
You know it's bad when you have been refusing promotions.
Felischa (21:55):
I was like, "I'm not doing it. I don't know nothing."
Anya (21:58):
I don't know.
Felischa (21:58):
Don't look at me. So they hired another person, she happened to be Black.
Anya (22:02):
Oh okay. Okay.
Felischa (22:02):
She knew my dream and she would let me go to meetings and-
Fanshen (22:07):
Yes.
Felischa (22:09):
[crosstalk 00:22:09] be here. That kind of thing, she was even younger than me. She didn't know she was younger than me at the time and I'm like, "Girl, you're cool." Because she was a singer too. Everybody in LA is something else anyway.
Fanshen (22:17):
Yeah of course.
Felischa (22:18):
It's different from being Chicago trying to do that, because I would have to disappear for meetings and all this. So I was going on staff meetings, so eventually, I got staffed on 13 Reasons Why.
Anya (22:26):
Oh, so that was your first job?
Felischa (22:27):
Yes, that was my first job.
Anya (22:28):
So you worked two years on 13 Reasons Why-
Felischa (22:30):
Yes.
Anya (22:31):
And now you got your own show?
Felischa (22:32):
Yes.
Anya (22:32):
Girl, you are-
Fanshen (22:33):
See, this is-
Felischa (22:35):
Thank you.
Anya (22:35):
What? It's the lord. It's the...
Fanshen (22:37):
It's you.
Anya (22:38):
I'm just saying, in that-
Fanshen (22:39):
You.
Anya (22:40):
What?
Christabel (22:41):
That's beautiful.
Felischa (22:41):
I know, that was a blessing.
Christabel (22:45):
Because I direct, so I work a lot with showrunners and I think it's a skill that you have to learn-
Felischa (22:52):
Yes.
Christabel (22:53):
But also you had such... a lot of experience coming up into it. Do you feel like you were able to transition into it well?
Felischa (22:59):
I was scared to death. I didn't know what I was doing.
Christabel (23:02):
Yeah.
Felischa (23:03):
I definitely... I know because some people have this thought like you don't need a showrunner a new creator, you can figure it out, but again, the universe sent me an article right before the show was officially going to be a series and not just a pilot script, it was a New York Times article talking about creators being said... I think it was New York Times, creators being set up to fail by running their own shows the first season.
Fanshen (23:25):
Oh.
Felischa (23:26):
The quote said, "Showrunners are made, not born." That to me was my reinforcement because there are plenty of people saying, "Why don't you run your own show? You can run." And I'm like... I just... I'm too new. This is not intuitive job.
Anya (23:39):
Right.
Fanshen (23:40):
Right. [crosstalk 00:23:41] Actually-
Anya (23:40):
That is such-
Fanshen (23:42):
On that point, can we describe... because showrunner, we use it a lot here, but it's something I've never heard of obviously before coming to Hollywood.
Anya (23:51):
Right.
Fanshen (23:51):
Is you hear... you know what a producer is, executive producer, but tell us what a showrunner is-
Christabel (23:57):
Yes.
Fanshen (23:57):
And then what is the day in the life of a showrunner on your show?
Felischa (24:01):
Sure. They are the head writer, number one. So they are the final say on everything and to be the final say on everything, you have to have been... had time in the game, skin in the game to know what work and will. I know this won't work because of X, or I know this is too much dialogue, this will kill our day. I won't have that kind of... with having been on set for two days in my career as a writer-
Fanshen (24:25):
Right.
Felischa (24:26):
You know what I'm saying? Before this moment.
Christabel (24:28):
Just stop for one second.
Felischa (24:29):
Yeah.
Christabel (24:29):
As a writer, when you write an episode, you sometimes get to go on set-
Felischa (24:32):
Sometimes, but with-
Christabel (24:34):
[crosstalk 00:24:34] on your script.
Felischa (24:34):
Depending on the show.
Christabel (24:35):
So on 13 Reasons Why-
Felischa (24:36):
I was on someone else's script for two days-
Christabel (24:38):
Okay.
Felischa (24:38):
But it was someone else's script. Those two seasons, I only had two set days-
Christabel (24:41):
Two days on set?
Felischa (24:42):
As a staff writer-
Christabel (24:43):
Wow.
Felischa (24:43):
You may never go on set. It depends on how it flows basically.
Fanshen (24:47):
Wait, wait, wait, so you had two days on set and then you were showrunning your own... you were showrunning-
Felischa (24:53):
Well I was the creator and learning to showrun from my showrunner because I said, "I would like to be paired with a showrunner because that is..."
Fanshen (25:00):
Yes.
Felischa (25:01):
Before right now, there's so many creators and so much content, it was always that... unless you had a lot of time in the game and television, or at least a bit of time in the game and television, I had very little time in the game.
Fanshen (25:13):
Yes.
Felischa (25:13):
I'm not... and then I saw that article, so I was not mistaken.
Fanshen (25:16):
Right.
Felischa (25:17):
I'm sure some people would have liked me not to have one because there's one less person you have to pay, but I wasn't going to be set up to fail.
Fanshen (25:25):
I love that you-
Felischa (25:26):
The show wouldn't be that show without the showrunner.
Fanshen (25:29):
So impressive.
Felischa (25:29):
Because of his... just his resume.
Christabel (25:31):
Yeah.
Felischa (25:32):
He also knows pitfalls of comedy and how to run a room, so also what a showrunner does is they manage the writers room, because you can stay stuck on an idea for an hour if you're not careful.
Christabel (25:42):
Right.
Felischa (25:43):
So they keep the room running. They make decisions whenever we can't decide on what we want to do or like. They answer to the network. They're the manager of the entire show.
Fanshen (25:56):
Got you.
Felischa (25:57):
They-
Anya (25:58):
And don't they do a lot in post too?
Felischa (25:59):
Yeah.
Anya (25:59):
They got to go watch all-
Felischa (26:00):
Sitting and editing. So I'm sitting and editing with him. Basically I'm literally the... he allowed... there have been lots of stories... this is where I've had good grace too, a lot of stories about creators and showrunners not getting along.
Anya (26:12):
Yeah.
Felischa (26:12):
Or showrunners taking over a creator's show or making it their own. He was always very good about, "This is your vision, this is your show. My job is to help it come to life."
Anya (26:22):
Yeah.
Fanshen (26:22):
Amazing.
Felischa (26:23):
And teaching me how to do the thing, so that... and we have the same sense of humor. That was a magic pairing. So that's really the job of a showrunner. They hire all the lead, top people for all the roles.
Fanshen (26:37):
Okay.
Felischa (26:37):
As it relates to behind the scenes and then we all collectively, us and Will Packer pick cast, casting.
Fanshen (26:44):
Yes.
Felischa (26:45):
So that's a very collaborative... everything's collaborative, but the writers room and production really leans heavy on the show runner.
Anya (26:52):
I think it was such a smart idea for you and choice for you to choose someone to help you.
Felischa (26:58):
Absolutely.
Anya (26:58):
Because I think it can be... you can get caught up in the allure of Hollywood and be like, "Oh yeah. They put me... this is my show. It's going."
Felischa (27:04):
Yeah.
Fanshen (27:05):
I need to be the showrunner.
Anya (27:06):
"I'm going to do it. I know what I'm talking about."
Fanshen (27:06):
Yes.
Anya (27:08):
And then you fail because you really don't and people-
Fanshen (27:10):
Even though you had a great-
Anya (27:11):
Will eat you alive.
Felischa (27:12):
Eat you alive.
Anya (27:13):
If they see that you are weak and you're not-
Felischa (27:15):
Absolutely.
Anya (27:15):
Capable.
Felischa (27:16):
Absolutely.
Anya (27:16):
They will.
Felischa (27:17):
And I didn't want to... I know.
Anya (27:18):
Devour.
Felischa (27:18):
Exactly.
Fanshen (27:19):
Is your... do you have a life outside of-
Anya (27:23):
Work.
Fanshen (27:23):
Work?
Felischa (27:24):
I do. I have great... not a love life, but I have a great... I mean, I date.
Fanshen (27:29):
Yes.
Felischa (27:30):
I think literally the universe must want me to keep writing dating stories, because it keeps making my shit funny.
Anya (27:36):
Oh my god.
Felischa (27:38):
I'm like, "Are you serious universe?"
Christabel (27:39):
So what do you do to... what's your self care regime? Do you have one? How do you take care of yourself mentally, physically?
Felischa (27:48):
Mentally, I'm a spa girl. I love a message. I love a... I discovered Thai message in LA-
Fanshen (27:55):
Yes.
Felischa (27:55):
When I could afford to have messages after film school, and then I like going out. I had to find story in life. I'm not one of those writers who... I'm not a recluse. I think that's why I can write a fun show, because I'm in these streets. I'm a little old for it, but I be in these streets. When I can.
Christabel (28:11):
Can I ask one other question?
Felischa (28:12):
Please. Of course. Oh my goodness.
Christabel (28:14):
[crosstalk 00:28:14] is totally not even about this, but hair.
Fanshen (28:16):
Oh yes.
Christabel (28:19):
What you do?
Felischa (28:20):
You mean this right here?
Christabel (28:20):
You are wearing beautiful locks right now.
Christabel (28:21):
What?
Fanshen (28:23):
Oh, I know that. Is it Senegalese? Are they Senegalese?
Felischa (28:25):
Yes.
Fanshen (28:26):
Yes.
Felischa (28:27):
They are great.
Fanshen (28:32):
What advice would you give women who want to be in the industry?
Felischa (28:36):
Learn your craft, number one. I went to UCLA thinking I was doing it for credibility because I'm older and I need the credibility, the halo effect of a brand like UCLA so... no, I didn't know how to write. I got there like, "Oh shit, I'm bad." Or I'm good, but I'm not great.
Fanshen (28:51):
Right. Yeah.
Felischa (28:52):
Because I didn't know the craft like other people... even people you know, that honest friend, send that script to that person.
Fanshen (28:58):
Yes.
Felischa (29:00):
As well as the people who are going to say they love you no matter what.
Fanshen (29:02):
You need both of them, right?
Anya (29:03):
Right. Balance it out.
Felischa (29:05):
Film school is an option in terms of learn your craft. Everybody, that's a big investment. I'm still paying for it now.
Fanshen (29:13):
Right, right.
Felischa (29:14):
But it was worth it and then I would say enter contests, fellowships, anything that can garner attention. Number one, you'll start to get feedback on the scripts. If it's not getting you traction, you could start to maybe wonder why or learn your craft more or try to hire help to analyze your script to see where you are, but what can happen is judges for some of the top contests, you can Google them whether its TV or film, the top TV or film writing contests, but a lot of the judges are managers and productions company-
Fanshen (29:44):
Yes.
Felischa (29:45):
Execs. So my first calls from manager came from entering a UCLA contest and winning it and then getting managers calling me, you know what I mean?
Fanshen (29:55):
Wow.
Felischa (29:56):
So that's... it's basically I would get mad when teachers would say, "Just write." When I would ask for advice. I'm like, "What advice is that?" But that's all you can do and then you can put it out there that way, but that's really all you can do. Then things will happen, you just take one step and this first step is honing your craft and the rest will happen. If that's what meant to happen and your talent is there, yeah.
Anya (30:19):
Yeah.
Fanshen (30:19):
I so appreciate you saying that, because I do... it's tough putting your work out there, right? It's your baby and putting your work out there, and then accepting that if it's not being... if the reaction is not "Yes, we want this." Or you're not even becoming a semifinalist-
Felischa (30:41):
Right.
Fanshen (30:41):
That it does mean that's on you going back and working on it, right?
Felischa (30:47):
Exactly. After a while, I mean, when you first start doing it, you're so new it might be... because writing is a muscle, the more you do it, the better you are. It's magical how that happens. It sounds like BS, but it's real. So it might be that you're too green, you just need to keep doing it and try that again, but if you've been doing that a couple years and you got no traction, yeah, you probably have to maybe get a script... there are script reading services to give you some feedback because you might want to know where you're going wrong.
Fanshen (31:12):
Okay.
Felischa (31:13):
At that point-
Fanshen (31:13):
Okay.
Felischa (31:13):
But then usually get nibbles and nibbles lead to other nibbles and lead to other things.
Fanshen (31:17):
Okay.
Felischa (31:18):
It's just hard to predict. Everyone's story is different.
Fanshen (31:20):
Yeah.
Felischa (31:20):
In so many ways.
Anya (31:24):
I have a crush on your voice.
Felischa (31:27):
Never should have told me that.
Anya (31:28):
It's-
Felischa (31:30):
Actually, I made a cameo in episode 10 of Bigger.
Anya (31:33):
What?
Felischa (31:34):
I did-
Fanshen (31:35):
Could you be my Siri voice.
Felischa (31:36):
I don't know.
Anya (31:38):
Wait, you did the British Siri? Go ahead.
Felischa (31:39):
Oh no, I'm not doing in front of [crosstalk 00:31:42] I was like, "I don't know."
Fanshen (31:45):
Oh, that was good. That was-
Felischa (31:45):
Was that good? I don't know.
Fanshen (31:45):
That wasn't bad.
Anya (31:49):
That wasn't bad.
Felischa (31:51):
You're kicking me out for it.
Anya (31:54):
It wasn't good.
Felischa (31:54):
I have... when I go beyond that, it turns Irish then it gets a little [crosstalk 00:31:56]
Fanshen (31:56):
Do it, do it. Oh my goodness, Felischa Marye.
Felischa (31:59):
Thank you.
Anya (31:59):
Yes. Such a-
Fanshen (31:59):
We feel so incredibly fortunate to have you.
Felischa (32:02):
Thank you so much.
Fanshen (32:02):
Thank you for-
Felischa (32:04):
Thank you so much.
Fanshen (32:05):
Teaching us, leading us how to do it right in this industry. That was Felischa Marye, she's the creator and co-executive producer of the comedy Bigger on BET Plus.
Anya (32:15):
Thanks for listening to Sista Brunch, I'm Anya Adams.
Fanshen (32:18):
And I'm Fanshen Cox.
Anya (32:20):
Join us next time.
Anya (32:22):
(Music.)
Christabel (32:26):
Hey there, this is Christabel Nsiah-Buadi, the executive producer of Sista Brunch. You will have heard me weighing in on the conversation. I hope you enjoyed the show. Visit our website, we're at sistabrunch.com and join our community of creators. We're on twitter @SistaBrunch. On Instagram @sistabrunchpodcast and we're on Facebook at Facebook.com/sistabrunchpodcast. Be sure to subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your podcasts, we'll see you next time.
Christabel (32:55):
(Music.)